Question to atheists about some unexplained concepts

[Ben Davis]

Hi arda from the UK. Have you created an Introduction thread so we can get to know you?

To your post, I haven't had time to look up the specific facts but there are common themes here of which you may be unaware. Some Ecuadorian doctors may well believe that God is the decider for success of IVF however it's improbable that there's evidence to suggest so. In fact, intercessory prayer has been debunked in many different ways, many times. I'm sure if the specific stats in question were assessed, there would be no significant difference in the success rates for praying groups, non-praying groups or either groups in other countries where the same IVF methods are employed. You're likely to find that it depends entirely on the known medical factors: the type of technology, the state of the medical services, the application/methodology employed, the condition of ova & sperm, maternal health (including existing medical conditions) & nutrition and more.

Regarding the place they go to pray, I'd encourage you to review statistics of attendance at Lourdes where every year, thousands of sick people go to receive healing from God via the spirit of St. Bernadette. Recovery rates are lower than normal (where recovery is possible) and no impossible recoveries (e.g. growing back amputated limbs) are recorded. Doctors consider this to be suggestive of a negative placebo effect, whereby knowledge that intercession is occurring places additional stress on the ill thus prolonging their recovery or even worsening their condition. This may well be the case in Ecuador, too.

Any claims to the efficacy of prayer are most likely a result of confirmation bias, where people inflate the importance of data which supports their preconceived positions and disregard data which doesn't.

[brewer]

I prayed to St. Kingsford in vain, no baby, no sauce. 

Forced to be a vegan for a day. Not doing that again.

[zebo-the-fat]

Why do they go to a particular place to pray? I thought this god was all seeing and all knowing, not limited to communication from a single location.

[Catholic_Lady]

Arda, may I ask what saint this is?

[downbeatplumb]

Hey everyone,
I am new to this form. I am an agnostic, and I was curious about something.
I have been reading a book called "God's Laboratory". This book takes place in Ecuador, and it makes it clear that Ecuador is a very Christian religious country. A large deal of the book talks about IVF technology in Ecuador, and how doctors believe God is the decider as to whether or not IVF will work for a family or not. One part of the book talks about a certain saint Ecuadorians tend to pray to when they cannot have children. Apparently, there is a place where people can go, pray to a saint. Then, many have said the next time they attempt to have a child, that it works. I know it could be a coincidence, but it works for many people. I am wondering how this could be possible, and if you think this proves Christianity is correct because the people pray to a Christian saint. 
Thanks
Arda

Interestingly the power of prayer has been scientifically tested on a number of occasions.

The earliest I can think of by Francis Glaton the father of the idea of eugenics who looked at all the data he could about prauer and its effects.

Even noting that if prayer was effectual insurers would insist on prayers for things they were insuring.

http://galton.org/essays/1870-1879/galto...rayer.html

So how effective is prayer

The answer.

Not at all.

[Simon Moon]

Hey everyone,
I am new to this form. I am an agnostic, and I was curious about something.
I have been reading a book called "God's Laboratory". This book takes place in Ecuador, and it makes it clear that Ecuador is a very Christian religious country. A large deal of the book talks about IVF technology in Ecuador, and how doctors believe God is the decider as to whether or not IVF will work for a family or not. One part of the book talks about a certain saint Ecuadorians tend to pray to when they cannot have children. Apparently, there is a place where people can go, pray to a saint. Then, many have said the next time they attempt to have a child, that it works. I know it could be a coincidence, but it works for many people. I am wondering how this could be possible, and if you think this proves Christianity is correct because the people pray to a Christian saint. 
Thanks
Arda

A bunch of people claim they were able to conceive after praying.

Well, hell! Consider me impressed!

Seriously though, people in general have what is known as 'confirmation bias'. We tend to only count the hits, and ignore the misses.

So, people have not conceived YET, pray, then they concieve. There is absolutely zero way to tell if they conceived because of the prayer, or the conceived due to trying enough times.

Please site a study that shows that these people that prayed conceive at a higher rate than those that did not.

All you are doing is pointing out some anecdotal evidence, which is, by its nature, subject to massive confirmation bias.

[Mr Greene]

Frankly it screams confirmation bias, and claims of becoming pregnant, getting a job, finding a partner, etc. etc. etc. after praying at this shrine or to that saint are commonplace across the Catholic world. I know enough similar claims from Irish, Spanish and Italians.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Arda, may I ask what saint this is?

Hopefully not St. Jude.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Arda, may I ask what saint this is?

Hopefully not St. Jude.

Maybe St. Concepción?

Boru

---

Why do they go to a particular place to pray? I thought this god was all seeing and all knowing, not limited to communication from a single location.

It makes it easier to pass the collection plate.

Boru

[Mister Agenda]

It would be interesting if atheist couples couldn't conceive children, no matter how hard they tried. It's not interesting when people who are trying, conceive. That's what usually happens, sooner or later.