Repealing the Affordable Care Act will kill more than 43,000 people annually

[Minimalist]

i wouldn't appeal the ACA i would however say get ride of the part of the ACA were its mandatory to have insurance or face a penalty.

So you're the kind who wants to eat the candy and leave the vegetables.  The only way insurance works is if there are enough people who do not use it paying in to make up for those who do.  When the republicunts first devised the plan in the mid 90's they used to call it "personal responsibility."  As soon as Obama's name got attached to it they couldn't denounce it fast enough but it is the same plan that Romney enacted in Massachusetts.

[Tiberius]

Which is doubly hilarious when people who object to universal healthcare try to use the argument that they don't want to pay for another person's healthcare. They are already paying for millions of people's healthcare via their insurance premiums.

[Minimalist]

So, you think that if people did not have insurance they would be able to pay to repair severe accident damage by themselves?

No, and that's a separate issue and not consistent with the analogy. I said 'totaled'; similar to death. Without insurance people can ward off being 'totaled' by visiting the emergency room. People are not turned away because they don't have insurance. The argument is that people are not dying because they don't have insurance.

The point you raise is a fair consideration though. Although people aren't turned away for not having insurance, they will get billed. This is one of the many reasons the ACA should not be repealed unless it can be replaced. People with preexisting conditions would also apply; among several other reasons that are valid arguments. I just think we should let go of the scare tactic that people will die without insurance. It's unreasonable, particularly with the way the numbers are generated that go along with the argument.

We are all going to die, with or without insurance. It's a far better tactic to force the dialogue around quality of life, some aspects of healthcare as a right, the cost of healthcare and the ability to afford it.

Well, it was your analogy.  People who get screened for diabetes can be treated with diet/exercise and medication.  People who show up in a diabetic coma at an ER are in much deeper shit.  Or worse, if they have gangrene they can have something amputated but the costs in an ER are astonishingly high and if they don't have insurance and have to rely on Medicare guess who pays for that in the long run?  Right.  We do.

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I see that Tibs already nailed the answer.

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I found out today that I'm more or less a month away from Stage 5 CKD. I'll have to get dialysis treatments and file the paperwork to get on the transplant list. So, sorry if I don't approach this topic with pure logic; it's very personal to me.

Best wishes, man.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I found out today that I'm more or less a month away from Stage 5 CKD. I'll have to get dialysis treatments and file the paperwork to get on the transplant list. So, sorry if I don't approach this topic with pure logic; it's very personal to me.

You've got my sympathies, bud. Wish I had more to offer.

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Which is doubly hilarious when people who object to universal healthcare try to use the argument that they don't want to pay for another person's healthcare. They are already paying for millions of people's healthcare via their insurance premiums.

... and taxes, for the ER visits you mentioned, in public hospitals. Tax money that is, by the way, spent at the least effective moment of a chronic illness.

[Aegon]

I found out today that I'm more or less a month away from Stage 5 CKD. I'll have to get dialysis treatments and file the paperwork to get on the transplant list. So, sorry if I don't approach this topic with pure logic; it's very personal to me.

You have my sympathies. Have your MD's talked to you about medicare eligibility for ESRD?

https://www.medicareresources.org/blog/2...-patients/

I'm somewhat aware of this. I'm still young (turning 22 tomorrow), so I've really only begun to educate myself about my insurance in the last year that I've been treated for it. I'm still thoroughly confused by a lot of it. I was under my father's insurance, but unfortunately it was not the best plan and it didn't cover a lot, but coverage was expanded under the ACA. I was able to receive certain medications for $5 when at one point they cost $100+, so says my doctors. However, I also live in NY, one of the states that expanded Medicaid. And if one of the replacement plans that's been circling the news (the one that allows states to keep the ACA if they so desire) passes, then I'm sure NY will keep it. 

It's all very overwhelming and it just ticks me off that I need to worry about it at all. Our system should not be like this. And there are people like me, with different conditions, in different states, who are in a much worse position. They should not have to worry either.

[Amarok]

Which is doubly hilarious when people who object to universal healthcare try to use the argument that they don't want to pay for another person's healthcare. They are already paying for millions of people's healthcare via their insurance premiums.

 It's also funny about costs while choosing the more expensive option and it's not that much faster all things considered nor is it better in terms of quality really

[Seraphina]

Killing the poors is the whole point of repealing Obamacare. That way there won't be anyone left to pick up torches and pitchforks against the wealthy.

[Aroura]

I found out today that I'm more or less a month away from Stage 5 CKD. I'll have to get dialysis treatments and file the paperwork to get on the transplant list. So, sorry if I don't approach this topic with pure logic; it's very personal to me.

I'm so sorry Aegon. I wish I even knew what to say.
I hope you get to continue your treatment, and that it works for you.

[Cato]

Well, it was your analogy.  People who get screened for diabetes can be treated with diet/exercise and medication.  People who show up in a diabetic coma at an ER are in much deeper shit.  Or worse, if they have gangrene they can have something amputated but the costs in an ER are astonishingly high and if they don't have insurance and have to rely on Medicare guess who pays for that in the long run?  Right.  We do.

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I see that Tibs already nailed the answer.

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Now we're talking. Diabetes. I make a clear distinction between Type I or Type II. The people that suffer from Type I can never be blamed for their condition and are among those with pre-existing conditions that I addressed earlier. Type II is an entirely different circumstance. Why am I obligated to pay for medication or a doctor's visit for those that don't diet/exercise?

Of course we're now obfuscating the original argument that revocation of insurance = death.

[Aroura]

Well, it was your analogy.  People who get screened for diabetes can be treated with diet/exercise and medication.  People who show up in a diabetic coma at an ER are in much deeper shit.  Or worse, if they have gangrene they can have something amputated but the costs in an ER are astonishingly high and if they don't have insurance and have to rely on Medicare guess who pays for that in the long run?  Right.  We do.

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I see that Tibs already nailed the answer.

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Now we're talking. Diabetes. I make a clear distinction between Type I or Type II. The people that suffer from Type I can never be blamed for their condition and are among those with pre-existing conditions that I addressed earlier. Type II is an entirely different circumstance. Why am I obligated to pay for medication or a doctor's visit for those that don't diet/exercise?

Of course we're now obfuscating the original argument that revocation of insurance = death.

Many type 2 are elderly, and it's more akin to other organ failure that happens as we age.

And anyway, if we should treat people with drug and alcohol addictions with humane kindness, the same goes for everyone. People don't enjoy being overweight and ill, it's practically pushed on them from all sides nowadays.

Education and preventative care for every person would also reduce things like our obesity epidemic, not to mention more regulations on the companies making the monstrous shit that causes it in the first place. Not everything boils down to individual "choice".

Seems like we are destined for those 3 things to be made weaker soon, just when we need them to improve.