Guys do you believe Howard Storm's NDE?

[Whateverist]

Oh come, Rik. Now you're just being an attention whore.

[Little Rik]

Oh come, Rik.  Now you're just being an attention whore.

I am so so sorry Whatever for keeping on hammering the nail until it reach the bottom.  
I just was making sure that some people wouldn't come back with more magic rabbits in order to
create more excuses.  

[Fake Messiah]

  The other point is this:  hallucinations originate in the BRAIN.  How is it possible to have an hallucination when there is no heartbeat and no brain activity and clinically dead for more than 5 minutes?     Usually the charge of "hallucination" is made by folks who don't WANT NDE's to be real...IMO.         IF the NDE IS a mere hallucination, I say, May god bless hallucinations!  The world NEEDS MORE of them!

But it all points to mere hallucination because all those who have the so called near death experience see only prominent figures who are associated with their religion. Hindus do not report seeing Zeus, Christians do not report meeting Mohammed, and Muslims never seem to encounter Joseph Smith. And no one ever gets greeted by a long-forgotten god from an extinct prehistoric religion. I mean would that not be one of the best ways to determine what is the real God? When Christian dies and sees Khepri, an ancient Egyptian god he can go back and tell it to the rest of us.

Although you are uninterested in doubting the accuracy of this sort of recollections it is well known that our brains can fool us into believing sights, sounds, and even complex experiences that do not match with reality.

A person who has experienced an hallucination KNOWS shortly thereafter that it WAS an hallucination and they forget it, placing that experience in that part of the brain storage area that houses that bad dream you had a month ago, or where the memory of stumbling over that skateboard on the sidewalk, causing a sprained an ankle, is located.

Why would you think that? Many people say they know they were experimented on by aliens, too. Many people also say they know a horoscope accurately foretold their future. Many people know they saw a ghost. Clearly an individual's confidence is not enough. If it is, then we would have to believe every story ever told with conviction as if no human can be honestly mistaken or innocently deluded. Claims of seeing heaven may be true, but without evidence they are all just stories.
The most likely explanation is that the dying or oxygen-deprived brain that is also under medications is probably behind these events and exposed to religious beliefs in his or her culture it might easily trigger one's brain to place or interpret the psychological experience into a religious context.

[Angrboda]

Oh come, Rik.  Now you're just being an attention whore.

I am so so sorry Whatever for keeping on hammering the nail until it reach the bottom.  
I just was making sure that some people wouldn't come back with more magic rabbits in order to
create more excuses.  

Something reached bottom, and it weren't no nail.
As usual, with Howard Storm's "NDE" you've got a bullshit story,
but not a lick of evidence.

All the evidence indicates that Howard Storm did not die.
Maybe he had a dream, maybe he made it all up.
I do not care. All the evidence is on my side.
And all the shit talk in the world won't change that.

Poor "No Evidence" Little Rik

[Little Rik]

  The other point is this:  hallucinations originate in the BRAIN.  How is it possible to have an hallucination when there is no heartbeat and no brain activity and clinically dead for more than 5 minutes?     Usually the charge of "hallucination" is made by folks who don't WANT NDE's to be real...IMO.         IF the NDE IS a mere hallucination, I say, May god bless hallucinations!  The world NEEDS MORE of them!

But it all points to mere hallucination because all those who have the so called near death experience see only prominent figures who are associated with their religion. Hindus do not report seeing Zeus, Christians do not report meeting Mohammed, and Muslims never seem to encounter Joseph Smith. And no one ever gets greeted by a long-forgotten god from an extinct prehistoric religion. I mean would that not be one of the best ways to determine what is the real God? When Christian dies and sees Khepri, an ancient Egyptian god he can go back and tell it to the rest of us.

Wrong.

In order to understand how the system works you should put yourself in God's shoes so to speak.
As God why should you interfere in people progress?
Let the free will take his course and let the people choose the path to follow in good or bad.
Storm before was shown the Nirvana was shown the mental hell because his life was full of hell (lack of God which has nothing to do with the Christian or physical hell).
To other people God show whatever they believe before their NDE and to anyone who did not believe in anything God show the nirvana in different ways so God always act in the interest of the person regardless his or her beliefs.

Although you are uninterested in doubting the accuracy of this sort of recollections it is well known that our brains can fool us into believing sights, sounds, and even complex experiences that do not match with reality.

Don't forget one thing mate.
Our brain act as the owner of such a brain desire.
The brain is a vehicle not the driver so when the brain is dead the consciousness dissociate from the dead brain and is more free than ever.
Why the driver would stay in a dead vehicle Mess?

A person who has experienced an hallucination KNOWS shortly thereafter that it WAS an hallucination and they forget it, placing that experience in that part of the brain storage area that houses that bad dream you had a month ago, or where the memory of stumbling over that skateboard on the sidewalk, causing a sprained an ankle, is located.

Why would you think that? Many people say they know they were experimented on by aliens, too. Many people also say they know a horoscope accurately foretold their future. Many people know they saw a ghost. Clearly an individual's confidence is not enough. If it is, then we would have to believe every story ever told with conviction as if no human can be honestly mistaken or innocently deluded. Claims of seeing heaven may be true, but without evidence they are all just stories.
The most likely explanation is that the dying or oxygen-deprived brain that is also under medications is probably behind these events and exposed to religious beliefs in his or her culture it might easily trigger one's brain to place or interpret the psychological experience into a religious context.

Stories usually do not turn a non believer into a strong believer.
Stories are quickly forgotten while NDEs are not.  


(color mine)

---

I am so so sorry Whatever for keeping on hammering the nail until it reach the bottom.  
I just was making sure that some people wouldn't come back with more magic rabbits in order to
create more excuses.  

Something reached bottom, and it weren't no nail.
As usual, with Howard Storm's "NDE" you've got a bullshit story,
but not a lick of evidence.

All the evidence indicates that Howard Storm did not die.  
Maybe he had a dream, maybe he made it all up.
I do not care.  All the evidence is on my side.
And all the shit talk in the world won't change that.

Poor "No Evidence" Little Rik

Now you really reach the very bottom yog.




Until few days ago you at least were coming up with some stories (all bulls of course) that pretend to keep your beliefs alive but now you just lost all motivations (obviously considering that your beliefs were all crap) so now you just say.........no evidence ...........without presenting any valid reason.

I just feel a bit sad to see you down there in the mental gutter.  

[Fake Messiah]

In order to understand how the system works you should put yourself in God's shoes so to speak. ...
To other people God show whatever they believe before their NDE and to anyone who did not believe in anything God show the nirvana in different ways so God always act in the interest of the person regardless his or her beliefs.

OK I've put myself in god's perspective and it still makes no sense because in holy books like Quran and Bible god demands killing of people that don't believe in god described in given holy book. So why would god suddenly tolerate people when they die and believe in different god while being totally filled with jealousy and rage during their lives when they believe in different one?

The other thing is that Howard Storm never died in medical terms. This is by his own admission from his book "My Descent Into Death":
"The doctors in the United States said that I should have lived for five hours. Yet no one examined me during the nine hours I waited in the Paris hospital for the operation. It is impossible to claim that I died, since I received no medical attention during that time. ... Whether I died during my Near-Death Experience depends upon your definition of death. There is no question that I was dying."

So Storm didn't die but was just very sick and sick people do hallucinate and rant and rave.

Stories usually do not turn a non believer into a strong believer.
Stories are quickly forgotten while NDEs are not.

Sure, most of us consider reports of Elvis sightings after his death in 1977 to be untrue because there was no evidence. There are just too many wild stories out there to safely accept all of them or even a small fraction of them without demanding evidence first. When it comes to telling stories, it is easy for people to lie, make honest mistakes about the facts, or to have even hallucinated or dreamed up the entire episode.
It is possible that some of them might be true, but which ones? For you it's the NDE stories you believe in all of them for some reason. Can you tell us that reason?
Look at it like this: asking for evidence is just a smart way of doing business in life, nothing personal. It's not rude. It's safe. If you don't want to risk having a bunch of nonsense take up valuable real estate in your head, then consistently ask for evidence when confronted with unusual stories.

[Little Rik]

In order to understand how the system works you should put yourself in God's shoes so to speak. ...
To other people God show whatever they believe before their NDE and to anyone who did not believe in anything God show the nirvana in different ways so God always act in the interest of the person regardless his or her beliefs.

OK I've put myself in god's perspective and it still makes no sense because in holy books like Quran and Bible god demands killing of people that don't believe in god described in given holy book. So why would god suddenly tolerate people when they die and believe in different god while being totally filled with jealousy and rage during their lives when they believe in different one?

Wrong again mate.  

God did never write any so called holy books.
We do not know who did write these books but we know that different people give different interpretation to the same story and we know that God so called rage and hell was invented by the caste of the priests in order to control people mind.
When you say that you put yourself in God's perspective based on the priests interpretations of the so called holy books you just do not know what you talk about.  

The other thing is that Howard Storm never died in medical terms. This is by his own admission from his book "My Descent Into Death":
"The doctors in the United States said that I should have lived for five hours. Yet no one examined me during the nine hours I waited in the Paris hospital for the operation. It is impossible to claim that I died, since I received no medical attention during that time. ... Whether I died during my Near-Death Experience depends upon your definition of death. There is no question that I was dying."

So Storm didn't die but was just very sick and sick people do hallucinate and rant and rave.

No Mess.
Wrong again.
Storm just say that he did not know whether he was dead or alive.
Leave it to that.
As far as saying that his NDE was an hallucination that is not possible considering that his experience go hand in hand with all other NDEs beside an hallucination wouldn't be remember in such a clear, sharp and vivid way as he did remembered.

Stories usually do not turn a non believer into a strong believer.
Stories are quickly forgotten while NDEs are not.

Sure, most of us consider reports of Elvis sightings after his death in 1977 to be untrue because there was no evidence. There are just too many wild stories out there to safely accept all of them or even a small fraction of them without demanding evidence first. When it comes to telling stories, it is easy for people to lie, make honest mistakes about the facts, or to have even hallucinated or dreamed up the entire episode.
It is possible that some of them might be true, but which ones? For you it's the NDE stories you believe in all of them for some reason. Can you tell us that reason?
Look at it like this: asking for evidence is just a smart way of doing business in life, nothing personal. It's not rude. It's safe. If you don't want to risk having a bunch of nonsense take up valuable real estate in your head, then consistently ask for evidence when confronted with unusual stories.

Wrong again and again Mess.
Stories about Elvis are just stories for the simple reason that such a stories vary after the first time that they are told and are not remembered in a clear, sharp and vivid way.
NDEs on the other hand do not vary even after years and years.
If you do not believe me go and ask those who say that they saw Elvis and ask about the same details that they recount the first time years ago.
Their story would be totally different and most details would be lost completely.  

[Fake Messiah]

God did never write any so called holy books.
We do not know who did write these books but we know that different people give different interpretation to the same story and we know that God so called rage and hell was invented by the caste of the priests in order to control people mind.
When you say that you put yourself in God's perspective based on the priests interpretations of the so called holy books you just do not know what you talk about.

So if you reject holy books on what exactly do you base your own religion? You just make up what you want to believe based on nothing? Not to mention that NDE led Storm to be a Christian - a religion which revelations you consider fake and yet you consider his NDE valid although it led him to be a minister of a fake religion.

Stories about Elvis are just stories for the simple reason that such a stories vary after the first time that they are told and are not remembered in a clear, sharp and vivid way.
NDEs on the other hand do not vary even after years and years.

What they're the same? But just a post ago you said they were different

....God show the nirvana in different ways...

Ricky what are you trying to pull here? Now be honest.

[Angrboda]

Something reached bottom, and it weren't no nail.
As usual, with Howard Storm's "NDE" you've got a bullshit story,
but not a lick of evidence.

All the evidence indicates that Howard Storm did not die.  
Maybe he had a dream, maybe he made it all up.
I do not care.  All the evidence is on my side.
And all the shit talk in the world won't change that.

Poor "No Evidence" Little Rik

Now you really reach the very bottom yog.




Until few days ago you at least were coming up with some stories (all bulls of course) that pretend to keep your beliefs alive but now you just lost all motivations (obviously considering that your beliefs were all crap) so now you just say.........no evidence ...........without presenting any valid reason.

I just feel a bit sad to see you down there in the mental gutter.  

Haha. Yeah, you got nothing.

[Little Rik]

Now you really reach the very bottom yog.




Until few days ago you at least were coming up with some stories (all bulls of course) that pretend to keep your beliefs alive but now you just lost all motivations (obviously considering that your beliefs were all crap) so now you just say.........no evidence ...........without presenting any valid reason.

I just feel a bit sad to see you down there in the mental gutter.  

Haha.  Yeah, you got nothing.

Yeah sure, didn't I said that you run out of magic rabbits?                

---

God did never write any so called holy books.
We do not know who did write these books but we know that different people give different interpretation to the same story and we know that God so called rage and hell was invented by the caste of the priests in order to control people mind.
When you say that you put yourself in God's perspective based on the priests interpretations of the so called holy books you just do not know what you talk about.

So if you reject holy books on what exactly do you base your own religion?

I do appreciate your open mind which is something that most people in this forum do not have at the same time that doesn't make you right.
I never said that I do reject holy books so please try not to interpret me wrong.
I did say that God never did write the holy books and that doesn't mean that holy books are wrong.
I also did say that nobody knows who write holy books.
I also say that priests and other people give different interpretation to the same story and in most cases is the wrong interpretation.
All this doesn't mean that the holy books are wrong.
They may be they may not be.
I also would give my own interpretation to some story which is totally different from what priests or other people say.

You just make up what you want to believe based on nothing?

Wrong.
Is a pity that you didn't read some of my previous post in which I said that when the student is ready the teacher will appear.
I have been a student of the late P.R.Sarkar for many many years and I can assure you that his teachings
are better than solid gold so I wouldn't say that what I follow is based on nothing.

Not to mention that NDE led Storm to be a Christian - a religion which revelations you consider fake and yet you consider his NDE valid although it led him to be a minister of a fake religion.

Wrong again Mess.
Several people who experienced an NDE ask God what is the best religion.
God said..........the best religion is the one who help you in your spiritual progress.
These people had a religious background so God let their free will to follow what they like most.

At the same time most people who had an NDE without having a religious background were given
the understanding that spirituality is the best of the best.
In any case God always make sure that people understand that loving each other is the most important thing of all regardless whether you follow religions or not.
The old saying goes..........THE WAY TO HEAVEN ARE INFINITE.
One of my brother follow religion.
He is a bit naive but at the same time he does everything with sincerity and honesty.
He helps other, he doesn't do anything that harm other so at the end God will have to accept him
even if he does follow a religion that got it wrong.

Stories about Elvis are just stories for the simple reason that such a stories vary after the first time that they are told and are not remembered in a clear, sharp and vivid way.
NDEs on the other hand do not vary even after years and years.

What they're the same? But just a post ago you said they were different

Slow down mate and try to understand what I did say.
I did say the an NDE is remembered in a clear, sharp and vivid way after years and years just as the first day it happened while an hallucination is easily forgotten after a short time.  
Got it now?  

....God show the nirvana in different ways...

Ricky what are you trying to pull here? Now be honest.

People who had an NDE felt so much peace of mind and bliss that they would have rather stay in that
state of nirvana (bliss) but God want them back in their bodies to work out more personal problems or to help other.
Got it?