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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 7:37 pm
(February 7, 2017 at 4:47 pm)Lek Wrote: (February 4, 2017 at 5:19 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Some say that we should reject polytheism because Occam's Razor says that "we ought not to multiply entities beyond necessity" (or, something like that). But, if we are going to reject polytheism via Occam's Razor, why shouldn't the same argument apply to theism or deism? After all, if naturalism offers plausible explanations for everything (including, "Why there is something rather than nothing?" Answer: The Cosmos is beginningless and endless), why, per Occam's Razor, appeal to anything beyond naturalism which would be to "multiply entities beyond necessity?"
I don't care what Occam's Razor or any other philosophy says. I just want to know God, whether he exists as one or as many gods. Naturalism doesn't offer plausible explanations for everything, so I can't fall back on it for answers to all my questions. If someone is healed overnight from a terminal disease I can think that even though science can't explain it there is a natural explanation that we haven't discovered yet, which is one possible explanation. I can also think that there might be a supernatural explanation and pursue that, but I'm not going to limit myself to not exploring all avenues.
Just curious, what do you think there is that naturalism cannot explain?
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 7:39 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2017 at 7:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
In my experience, the things that christers find truly mysterious aren't the same set as the things that science has no explanation for.
"Miraculous healings" for example...there's no shortage of explanations for them, chief among them being that christers..well, lie....not just about being miraculously healed, but even that someone else was. Of course, any talk of misdiagnosis or remission would totally be unfun and defeat the purpose of making such assinine claims in the first place and it..too, must be rejected...because it's not an issue of having answers, but of having answers that the christer likes. Wherever there is a perception that the answers are unacceptable to said christer..well, that must be where the magic is, where god lives.
Not that any of this blisteringly stupid thought process is a problem for a person who doesn't care what any philosophy says, mind you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 7:41 pm
(February 7, 2017 at 7:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'm just trying to determine whether or not it's an issue of lying for christ or honest skullfuckery that someone's pulled over on him.
As with pedophilia the two usually go together. The victimizer has usually been victimized himself. Leastwise I suspect he imbibed the koolaid as a kiddo lovingly tendered by believing hands. Why he feels he needs to inflict his 'happy condition' on others is another matter of course.
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm
(February 7, 2017 at 7:37 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Just curious, what do you think there is that naturalism cannot explain?
Whether the universe, or anything, always existed without a beginning or if there was once nothing and then something came into being.
Is the universe infinite? If not, is there anything beyond the edge of the universe or nothing at all?
Is there a reason for the universe to be here?
There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
What causes a woman to speak in a deep man's voice or a language that she never knew how to speak or in a dead language?
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 8:07 pm
(February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm)Lek Wrote: Whether the universe, or anything, always existed without a beginning or if there was once nothing and then something came into being. Magic.
Quote:Is the universe infinite? If not, is there anything beyond the edge of the universe or nothing at all?
Magic.
Quote:Is there a reason for the universe to be here?
Magic.
Quote:There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
Magic.
Quote:What causes a woman to speak in a deep man's voice or a language that she never knew how to speak or in a dead language?
Magic.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 8:18 pm
(February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm)Lek Wrote: There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
When scientists experiment on animals by giving them cancer, there are always a small % of animals that go into remission spontaneously.
Is god also healing rats?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 8:19 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2017 at 8:21 pm by Lek.)
(February 7, 2017 at 8:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm)Lek Wrote: Whether the universe, or anything, always existed without a beginning or if there was once nothing and then something came into being. Magic.
Quote:Is the universe infinite? If not, is there anything beyond the edge of the universe or nothing at all?
Magic.
Quote:Is there a reason for the universe to be here?
Magic.
Quote:There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
Magic.
Quote:What causes a woman to speak in a deep man's voice or a language that she never knew how to speak or in a dead language?
Magic.
Thanks. I'll just go to you for all the answers from now on Khemikal.
(February 7, 2017 at 8:18 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm)Lek Wrote: There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
When scientists experiment on animals by giving them cancer, there are always a small % of animals that go into remission spontaneously.
Is god also healing rats?
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not saying there's not a scientific answer.
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm
(February 7, 2017 at 8:19 pm)Lek Wrote: (February 7, 2017 at 8:18 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: When scientists experiment on animals by giving them cancer, there are always a small % of animals that go into remission spontaneously.
Is god also healing rats?
Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not saying there's not a scientific answer.
But not having a scientific answer to this, and any of the other questions you raised, does not get close for the need to invoke a god for an answer.
The list of things that were once explained by invoking a god, that are better explained by natural mechanisms, is endless.
The list of things that were once explained by natural mechanisms, that are better explained by a god, is none existent.
The list of things that we currently do not have a scientific explanation for, does not mean they fall into the latter list, by default.
Sometimes, the answer "we don't know yet" is the best answer.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2017 at 8:38 pm by Whateverist.)
(February 7, 2017 at 8:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm)Lek Wrote: Whether the universe, or anything, always existed without a beginning or if there was once nothing and then something came into being. Magic.
Quote:Is the universe infinite? If not, is there anything beyond the edge of the universe or nothing at all?
Magic.
Quote:Is there a reason for the universe to be here?
Magic.
Quote:There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
Magic.
Quote:What causes a woman to speak in a deep man's voice or a language that she never knew how to speak or in a dead language?
Magic.
Probably dark magic.
(February 7, 2017 at 8:18 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (February 7, 2017 at 7:56 pm)Lek Wrote: There are there physician documented cases of sudden recoveries from terminal diseases. Why did these occur?
When scientists experiment on animals by giving them cancer, there are always a small % of animals that go into remission spontaneously.
Is god also healing rats?
Silly. There is a rat god that does that.
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RE: Occam's Razor, atheism, theism and polytheism.
February 7, 2017 at 8:44 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2017 at 9:06 pm by Lek.)
(February 7, 2017 at 8:37 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (February 7, 2017 at 8:19 pm)Lek Wrote: Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not saying there's not a scientific answer.
But not having a scientific answer to this, and any of the other questions you raised, does not get close for the need to invoke a god for an answer.
The list of things that were once explained by invoking a god, that are better explained by natural mechanisms, is endless.
The list of things that were once explained by natural mechanisms, that are better explained by a god, is none existent.
The list of things that we currently do not have a scientific explanation for, does not mean they fall into the latter list, by default.
Sometimes, the answer "we don't know yet" is the best answer.
I'll agree with what you said. But the list of things that we believed were scientifically true at one time and we no longer believe to be so, is long. How many things that we believe to be scientifically true now will we not believe to be true later? Also, why not try to find answers to questions in ways other than natural science? Why should I accept all scientific answers if they may be shown to be wrong at some later point?
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