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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:33 pm
(February 6, 2017 at 4:32 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I think existence can never be a lack because of the asymmetry between pain and pleasure.
If I am never able to experience pleasure that's morally neutral. If i am never able to experience horrific suffering that's a morally good thing. -a double standard.
Quote:But... fuck morality in the ass with a rubber screwdriver because we can't deny our nature. As long as we're at least decent.
/ shrugs
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:34 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:35 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(February 6, 2017 at 4:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: What does the suffering of others have to do with you, to make that particular point of comparison valid..as though one must choose between your life and the suffering of others? What is it...exactly...that you -do- with your life.....
Hey... I don't expect you to understand 
(February 6, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (February 6, 2017 at 4:32 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I think existence can never be a lack because of the asymmetry between pain and pleasure.
If I am never able to experience pleasure that's morally neutral. If i am never able to experience horrific suffering that's a morally good thing. -a double standard.
An asymmetry.
For example... when is my happiness worth the torture of others? When is their happiness worth the torture of me? The answer: never.
Suffering is immoral. Happiness is amoral.
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:35 pm
A rose by another name.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:36 pm
Thank you 
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:37 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:37 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why not also conceptualize the notion that a life, in a vacuum, is also ammoral? Your parents did not control (and could not) whether you would ive a life of pleasure or suffering? They simply gave you life...the rest of it...well...that's not on them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:41 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:42 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Amoral = morally neutral. Immoral= morally bad.
Therefore the amorality of noexistence is superior to the immorality of potential suffering
The lesson I take from this is at the end of the day.... we're only motivated by morality when it suits us. If antinatialism is the most moral thing then throw out morality because life is more important.
Ought implies can. And we can't live by antinatalism. Thereby in another sense it ISN'T moral. Because it's not realistic.
I guess it's only moral in theory. In practice it's not realistically moral.
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:42 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Really? Wouldn't the amorality, then, of existence also be superior to the immorality of conscientious non-existence? Practically or theoretically?
Forgive me for distilling this newly common bullshit..but the idea that being nothing is morally better than being something (insert personally valued shit here) is idiotic, on it's face, and even by reference to it's own underpinnings.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:43 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:46 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
I value friendship more than morality. If I really wanted to be moral the right thing to do might be to euthanize myself painlessly because I fuck things up more than I help matters. But fuck that I enjoy life too much and that's just weird and disturbing
(February 6, 2017 at 4:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Really? Wouldn't the amorality, then, of existence also be superior to the immorality of conscientious non-existence? Practically or theoretically?
I'm confused. Consciousness is a potential for both morality and immorality and immorality vastly outweighs morality due to the asymmetry of sufffering and happiness.
Nonexistence is kind of moral by being less immoral. It's morally superior to not exist. It's also undesirable and unrealistic once you already exist and therefore not practically moral, only in theory
The problem is that the objective perspective becomes irrelevant as soon as you have people alive who want to live
Nonexistence doesn't get a say in the matter
I think what is most hilarious of all about this is that if God is truly perfect then IMO he wouldn't exist 
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:48 pm
(This post was last modified: February 6, 2017 at 4:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
What assymetry...you mean...the less devalued word for a double standard?
How many callouses are too many to learn to play the guitar...morally?
(pro-tip...you don;t understand the word objective...you've been poisoned by the religious usage)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "The Arrival" (Spoiler Free(cause I haven't seen it))
February 6, 2017 at 4:51 pm
I mean the fact that.... think of the suffering in the world. Is the happiness in the world worth that? No fucking way.
In fact I'd say that whoever in the world is experiencing the most torturous pain and suffering right now..... that suffering from that one individual makes the world not worth existing. I don't see how you can add together the isolated consciousness of pleasures and smiles and happiness and laughter to outweigh what that person is experiencing. The morally ideal thing would be to press the stop button on the universe and painlessly end all consciousness.
.... and yet. I am too selfish to choose that even if I could.
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