Sun miracle

[Faith No More]

Find ONE person who can cast ONE spell to prove magic is real and THEN I'll look into individual idiotic claims of magical happenings.  Until you can offer the slightest evidence to even remotely suggest that magic is a thing looking into any particular magical claim is a waste of my time.

Well, I can turn water into piss.

Checkmate, atheists.

[snerie]

Prove to me they are just stories or hoaxes try to find contradictions in the reports. the people that were there are entirely conivinced that something supernatural happened   all though i doupt any of them are still alive and certainly there had to be some smart people in a crowd of 30000-100000 people doctors, journalist, atheist ect. so tell me what do you think is more likely that 70000 people are all lying or were  simultaneously  deceived   or that something supernatural really did happen there. if so prove it you atheist always ask for evidence here is the evidence. I do not like the credulous nore do i like dismissers or debunkers. be investigators

[FatAndFaithless]

Prove to me they are just stories or hoaxes try to find contradictions in the reports. the people that were there are entirely conivinced that something supernatural happened   all though i doupt any of them are still alive and certainly there had to be some smart people in a crowd of 30000-100000 people doctors, journalist, atheist ect. so tell me what do you think is more likely that 70000 people are all lying or were  simultaneously  deceived   or that something supernatural really did happen there. if so prove it you atheist always ask for evidence here is the evidence. I do not like the credulous nore do i like dismissers or debunkers. be investigators

Bolded mine.

*Buzzer sound*

[Faith No More]

Prove to you that people that spent hours staring at the sun didn't experience it magically moving around in the sky? What's next? Proving Mohammed didn't split the moon in half?

The very nature of the thing is absurd. Firstly, staring at the sun can make you see all kinds of shit. Secondly, eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable, and not everyone saw the same thing. Thirdly, how come only people at this location saw the sun move around? Wouldn't millions upon millions around the globe have seen it, and wouldn't it have had catastrophic gravitational effects? Fourthly, Catholics have never been above just making miracles like this up.

I could keep going, but is it really even necessary to debunk such garbage? Are you sure you're not really a believer in disguise trying to play the whole "prove me wrong" card?

[snerie]

No i am not a believer nor debunker. I will give you my short live story. I was raised catholic but, I started to doupt my faith after beginning to study Cultural anthropology. as a child a spend allot of time reading books about ghost aliens and demons. the people who wrote those books seem to be qualified enough to write about them but they never presented solid evidence that they really happened. never the less, I know memory can be faulty but lets say a 100 people saw someone commit a at the same time murder. now depending on where you live that may or may not be enough but lets say a 100000 people saw it then the murderer would almost certainly be sent for life. David Hume said that a miracle should only be accepted if an natural explanation seem more  far fetched. he also said  that witness account are never enough if you could point me to another event where the same amount of people saw something paranormal ill appreciate it.

[FatAndFaithless]

No i am not a believer nor debunker. I will give you my short live story. I was raised catholic but, I started to doupt my faith after beginning to study Cultural anthropology. as a child a spend allot of time reading books about ghost aliens and demons. the people who wrote those books seem to be qualified enough to write about them but they never presented solid evidence that they really happened. never the less, I know memory can be faulty but lets say a 100 people saw someone commit a at the same time murder. now depending on where you live that may or may not be enough but lets say a 100000 people saw it then the murderer would almost certainly be sent for life. David Hume said that a miracle should only be accepted if an natural explanation seem more  far fetched. he also said  that witness account are never enough if you could point me to another event where the same amount of people saw something paranormal ill appreciate it.

You know that you can interview real, living people, right now, that will tell you of their alien abduction stories?  You can find many people from different areas who will tell shockingly similar stories that have a lot of elements in common.  You can find whole groups who claimed to be abducted at the same time.

Does that mean you're likely to believe them?


Now take that scenario and make it happen 100 years in the past.  Does it suddenly become more believable then?

[Faith No More]

No i am not a believer nor debunker. I will give you my short live story. I was raised catholic but, I started to doupt my faith after beginning to study Cultural anthropology. as a child a spend allot of time reading books about ghost aliens and demons. the people who wrote those books seem to be qualified enough to write about them but they never presented solid evidence that they really happened. never the less, I know memory can be faulty but lets say a 100 people saw someone commit a at the same time murder. now depending on where you live that may or may not be enough but lets say a 100000 people saw it then the murderer would almost certainly be sent for life. David Hume said that a miracle should only be accepted if an natural explanation seem more  far fetched. he also said  that witness account are never enough if you could point me to another event where the same amount of people saw something paranormal ill appreciate it.

Can provide a quote from Hume for that? I'm thinking maybe you misunderstood.

Regardless, let's go with that. Which is more far-fetched? The sun magically bouncing around in the sky, or thousands of superstitious people that had been staring at the sun for hours, which is well-known to cause hallucinations, had their brains go on the fritz? I mean, if it's such an awesome miracle, how come so many people didn't see anything?

You do know that when one believer claims to have experienced a miracle others will lie and say they did too in order to fit in and make it appear like they're just as pious?

[snerie]

A fair point I suppose but tell me which is more likely. A 70000 were all wrong B the journalist are lying or C something  supernatural really did take place there Or D the flying spaghetti monster was testing our faith  I recommend you read Joe nickell's article on it on skeptical inquiry. and tell me what your opinions are

[FatAndFaithless]

What is the likelihood of a supernatural event taking place? How did you calculate the probability for that?

[Faith No More]

A fair point I suppose but tell me which is more likely. A 70000 were all wrong B the journalist are lying or C something  supernatural really did take place there Or D the flying spaghetti monster was testing our faith  I recommend you read Joe nickell's article on it on skeptical inquiry. and tell me what your opinions are

Well, the eye-witnesses admit that there were many people that saw nothing. Hell, the believers can't even agree on what happened, so already, a large group of people are wrong no matter what. Do some research on the reliability of the human brain, especially eye-witness testimony. People aren't like video cameras just recording the raw truth.

As for that article, it's too long for me to get into right now, but right away I see a red flag. His "research" was for the The History Channel, which is known for peddling bullshit, especially when it comes to religion.