Theistic Inclinations

[Harry Nevis]

I still don't see how we can entirely blame someone for simply not believing any particular thing exists if they have not seen convincing proof of it. Refusing to believe because you don't like it or can't be bothered is one thing. But not believing because you just genuinely can't bring yourself to think it's real, is entirely different. And I think the vast majority of unbelievers fall into this latter category.

A common topic on AF is how much evidence is required to believe in God. I think it is pretty clear that for the overwhelming majority of AF members, no amount of evidence would be sufficient. As far as I’m concerned, God is not as hidden as they suggest. Everyone knows that some things are right and some things are wrong. It takes a special effort to believe in moral relativism. Everyone senses the transcendent in things of great beauty. It takes a special effort to attribute those feelings to just physiological responses. Anyone can see that things are not right in the world and that most often we have only ourselves to blame. It takes a special effort to consider yourself blameless in all this mess. The list goes on. That is what Paul is talking about; they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

You're really a self-righteous, lying piece of shit.

[FatAndFaithless]

Dang..Neo got it right...we're actually all just lying and suppressing the truth. Guess the god's out of the bag.

[Edwardo Piet]

Unfortunately that is not what you are witnessing in this thread. Look at all the twisted responses to the idea that God will forgive any and all offenses so long as there is genuine contrition. They call His mercy injustice. They call His generous loving-kindness immoral. These are not simple acts of disbelief or a benign ignorance. These responses are acts of will.

What you said "Exactly right" to is indeed very immoral.

The immoral part is not that God forgives murderers. It's WHY he forgives them. He forgives them for giving themselves to Jesus and he won't forgive atheists for not giving themselves to Jesus even if they're perfectly good people.

God doesn't care about goodness... he cares if you accept him.

I think it's rather hilarious that theists often think that an objective morality is impossible WITHOUT God... when surely if something is objectively good in and of itself then you don't need God?

If someone is truly good they don't need God to be good. And God being merely defined as good doesn't make God good if he approves of extremely immoral ideas.

[bennyboy]

A common topic on AF is how much evidence is required to believe in God. I think it is pretty clear that for the overwhelming majority of AF members, no amount of evidence would be sufficient. As far as I’m concerned, God is not as hidden as they suggest. Everyone knows that some things are right and some things are wrong. It takes a special effort to believe in moral relativism. Everyone senses the transcendent in things of great beauty. It takes a special effort to attribute those feelings to just physiological responses.

Special effort? Really?

We are social animals with a capacity for feeling and the ability to express ideas verbally. When two people discuss how they feel about things in such a way that behavioral rules are introduced, you have morality.

A: I have such a strong feeling about my children. The idea that they might be hurt just terrifies me!
B: Me too! And you know what, we can pretty easily see that all of our friends feel the same way about THEIR kids.
A: Okay, let's make a rule-- no hurting kids, because nobody likes that.
B: Agreed. And, since we're on the subject of things that bother us. . . I don't like the way you're looking at my wife!

At no part in this process did a magi-special Sky Daddy have to enter the picture and set anybody straight. People have feelings, verbalize them, and then come to some mutual sense of what is right or wrong.

[Neo-Scholastic]

The immoral part is not that God forgives murderers. It's WHY he forgives them. He forgives them for giving themselves to Jesus and he won't forgive atheists for not giving themselves to Jesus even if they're perfectly good people.

In the first case there is contrition for one's shortcomings. In the second case, there is not.

[GrandizerII]

The immoral part is not that God forgives murderers. It's WHY he forgives them. He forgives them for giving themselves to Jesus and he won't forgive atheists for not giving themselves to Jesus even if they're perfectly good people.

In the first case there is contrition for one's shortcomings. In the second case, there is not.

While what you adhere to is unfortunately mainstream Protestant/Evangelical soteriology, no shortcoming should ever be worth eternal punishment of any form. This theological conception just sounds so petty it can't be from the divine.

[Edwardo Piet]

Unfortunately that is not what you are witnessing in this thread. Look at all the twisted responses to the idea that God will forgive any and all offenses so long as there is genuine contrition. They call His mercy injustice. They call His generous loving-kindness immoral. These are not simple acts of disbelief or a benign ignorance. These responses are acts of will.

My bold. Bullshit. These are expressions of my belief that the God you believe in is immoral and that's all based on rational conclusions that I come to through my perceptions and judgement.

I think it's fucking disgusting that you think it's 'merciful' to give people a chance to believe in something and if they don't then you won't forgive them for the sin of not agreeing with you (global 'you' not you personally). That's what the God you believe in does. That's intolerance, nor mercy.

And it's fucking disgusting that that's what the God you believe in supposedly cares about most. Whether people believe he exists. Not whether people are good.

it's one thing to forgive bad people who are remorseful... it's another thing for the 'forgiveness' to have nothing to do with how good or bad they are and have everything to do with whether they give themselves to Jesus. For it to have nothing to do with being remorseful for a wrongful act and everything to do with being remorseful for not believing in God.... that's disgusting. Being remorseful for the 'sin' of non-belief and eventually believing in God is what God cares about apparently.

The other 'sins' are all symptoms of being ungodly, apparently. The one unforgivable sin is not believing in an immoral cunthead in the sky.

It's just obvious as fuck that true goodness wouldn't need God. Objective morality requires God? On the contrary. A truly objective morality would make God redundant.

[Athene]

In addressing the OP:

Depressed or not, I prefer to deal in solutions. Magical thinking tends to grossly impede one's ability in arriving at them, in my view. 

If there's no solution to be had...Oh, well. Terrible, ain't it? 
That's life, sometimes. 
I personally feel no need to commence with the thumb-sucking because of it; it's just a bad habit I don't care to pick up.

No theistic inclinations here.

[Edwardo Piet]

The immoral part is not that God forgives murderers. It's WHY he forgives them. He forgives them for giving themselves to Jesus and he won't forgive atheists for not giving themselves to Jesus even if they're perfectly good people.

In the first case there is contrition for one's shortcomings. In the second case, there is not.

LOL

If you don't believe in God then there's nothing to be sorry for. How can you realize your shortcomings if they presuppose the existence of something you don't even believe in?

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The immoral part is not that God forgives murderers. It's WHY he forgives them. He forgives them for giving themselves to Jesus and he won't forgive atheists for not giving themselves to Jesus even if they're perfectly good people.

In the first case there is contrition for one's shortcomings. In the second case, there is not.

And once again the only 'shortcoming' in either case is failing to see the existence of something invisible. Fucking ridiculous.

It should be obvious now that you're a disgusting person because you've made it clear that you think this God you believe in is perfectly good while spelling out that this God that you believe in believes that it's merciful to forgive someone if they eventually agree with him even if they're a murderer but to not forgive them if they don't eventually agree with him even when they're an amazing person.

[Amarok]

Everyone knows that some things are right and some things are wrong. It takes a special effort to believe in moral relativism.

Nope  it takes no effort at all to admit that my moral intutions are not written in the universe  and there just that . And even if it took speacial effort does not mean it's wrong it means your actually applying your reasoning to it instead of just assuming it's right.  If we took your mentallity we would still be wiping our asses wirth leaves .

Everyone senses the transcendent in things of great beauty. It takes a special effort to attribute those feelings to just physiological responses

Nope when i hear bach i know my state is pysclogical not that beuty exists as some magic susbstance of it's own . And as above just because ones easy does not mean it's right. and just because the other takes effort and reasoning  to accept does not mean it's wrong .

Anyone can see that things are not right in the world and that most often we have only ourselves to blame. It takes a special effort to consider yourself blameless in all this mess.

Nope the world is fine  its the way it's always been as for humans techincally were better then we have ever been . It could be better though .


And none of this equals to an interdemional sky pixie even if we accepted your assertions

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In the first case there is contrition for one's shortcomings. In the second case, there is not

Christianity moral Stockholm syndrome . Only interested in shaming you not in anything productive