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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 10:49 am
Referencing Genesis may not help further my argument here, but from the Christian perspective it gives me reason and foundation for my worldview.
You beat me to the punch as free will is my response.
You make an interesting point about the origins of life and the planet being cataclysmic and chaotic. I do not see the evidence for this being the beginning state of affairs. It could be the world was indeed created perfect, all was good and harmonious, and fell into the chaotic state it became.
My favorite scene from The Book of Eli, was when Denzel quoted Genesis 3:18 describing the change in the world, and then proceeded to issue wholesale death.
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 12:02 pm
(March 3, 2017 at 10:49 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Referencing Genesis may not help further my argument here, but from the Christian perspective it gives me reason and foundation for my worldview.
You beat me to the punch as free will is my response.
You make an interesting point about the origins of life and the planet being cataclysmic and chaotic. I do not see the evidence for this being the beginning state of affairs. It could be the world was indeed created perfect, all was good and harmonious, and fell into the chaotic state it became.
My favorite scene from The Book of Eli, was when Denzel quoted Genesis 3:18 describing the change in the world, and then proceeded to issue wholesale death.
*stunned*
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 12:13 pm
I'm easy. My last prayer was a promise to return to the Pentecostal church and try very hard to believe if I heard certain words from a certain person. I set the bar as low as I could justify with any integrity at all. The person could say it by coincidence, but lots of people say that's how Yahweh works.
I guess the window of opportunity for God to lift the slightest finger to reach me is until that person or I dies. This person prays almost constantly and surely would willingly deliver God's message if they heard it, but otherwise it is very unlikely that they will ever say what I'm looking for. If it ever happens I will report on it here, as well as if they die first (the person is about eighty).
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 12:48 pm
Well, I'm going to have to go against your OP instructions and just say "evidence". Personal stories and vague feelings and old books won't cut it.
A deity is going to have to show up in person, go on camera "live" in front of a large crowd of people, and do things that no human being can possibly do.
And even then, it would be difficult to ascertain whether this entity was beneficent or malevolent, and difficult to come up with any reason that it would want or be worthy of worship.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 1:09 pm
Maybe if hell froze over.
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 1:12 pm
(March 3, 2017 at 10:49 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: You make an interesting point about the origins of life and the planet being cataclysmic and chaotic. I do not see the evidence for this being the beginning state of affairs. It could be the world was indeed created perfect, all was good and harmonious, and fell into the chaotic state it became.
No.
"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 3:18 pm
If god created a perfect world that fell into imperfection of its own accord, it wasn't perfect in the first place, was it?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 3:25 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2017 at 3:25 pm by Whateverist.)
Maybe some really good special effects? He could take a clue from Hollywood. But that bastard isn't even trying.
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 4:34 pm
Witnessing that which is clearly known to be impossible, suddenly and clearly becoming possible, could go a long way towards establishing a belief in some sort of divine intelligence for me. It certainly wouldn't be proof, but it could stand to be adequate enough to satisfy my need for evidence on a personal level; I would be much more likely to consider divine intelligence a possibility.
Establishing who, or what, or determining any attributes, motivations/intent would be a whole 'nother ball of wax, of course. So, I'd hold off on falling to my knees and/or breaking out the ticker-tape.
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RE: I would believe in God if...
March 3, 2017 at 4:40 pm
Nothing. I require evidence. Bringing God into my condo so I can see him and touch him is a great start. But then you have to do something to make me believe that this guy I'm touching and seeing actually is God. No clue how you'd do that.
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
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