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The Arab World before Islamism
#21
RE: The Arab World before Islamism
(March 4, 2017 at 5:37 pm)Mr Greene Wrote:
(March 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The west has the UN in its pocket. They could've end this mess from day one just like in Libya.

The UN option was vetoed by Russia and China, for their own interests.
Frankly the track record of dealing with ME problems is... not impressive...

All UN members are allies; friends.
That was the code that started the council anyways.

It's not "China" or "Russia" or "America". Rather, what business man A and B want. Then, the scenario will get orchestrated in the way most suitable to keep the public busy.

That's why problems never get solved.

(March 4, 2017 at 10:09 pm)Bella Morte Wrote:
(March 4, 2017 at 9:22 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The solution? we all know it: let an Ottoman model come back.
A single state, so big it takes all these people under one flag. Then it's peace in the Middle East.

Yeah, that doesn't sound like much of a solution to me. But I would like the West to just pull out of the Middle East and leave you all to it. Enough blood has been spilled trying to sort that place out.

They won't. European youth -just like Arab youth- are enslaved and forced to move a path dictated and drawn by bigger bellies, only pouring in the interest of these orchestrates.

The more the businessman/banker can pay, the better military they will get. They literally buy military service, Iraq was the best example. Soon enough I believe they will even buy nukes, and make a stupid scenario to make us believe in.

Even if I'm a tin-foil by the standards of some; Bella, I don't want to see blood.
All of us humans can live an start to worry about bigger problems -like pollution that is choking our planet; for example-?

Imagine if nukes got disarmed. Money invested in finding cures for stuff like MS and CFS. 
Believe me it's not the Middle East alone in my head.

We have a chance to grow this whole planet into a civilization of dreams.
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#22
RE: The Arab World before Islamism
Trust me Atlas, I don't want wars either. Hence my comments about enough blood being spilled trying to sort out the Middle East. It just won't happen unless those living there want it as well.
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#23
RE: The Arab World before Islamism
Quote:A single state, so big it takes all these people under one flag. Then it's peace in the Middle East.

Hmmm.... I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.  A Sunni state would be bombed by the Shi'a and a Shi'ite state would be bombed by the Sunni.  Then there are all the other ethnic and religious groups, Alawite, Druze, xtian (Syrian or Coptic), Kurds, Armenians, Izadis, "and everybody hates the Jews," as Tom Lehrer sang.  I'm sure the Saudi's on one side and the Iranians on the other would love to pull it off but I can't see either side being strong enough to make it work.
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#24
RE: The Arab World before Islamism
(March 5, 2017 at 12:33 am)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:A single state, so big it takes all these people under one flag. Then it's peace in the Middle East.

Hmmm.... I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.  A Sunni state would be bombed by the Shi'a and a Shi'ite state would be bombed by the Sunni.  Then there are all the other ethnic and religious groups, Alawite, Druze, xtian (Syrian or Coptic), Kurds, Armenians, Izadis, "and everybody hates the Jews," as Tom Lehrer sang.  I'm sure the Saudi's on one side and the Iranians on the other would love to pull it off but I can't see either side being strong enough to make it work.

It's the Arab nationalist fantasy that if only all the external bad guys stop holding the arabs down, the arabs would miraculously prove their entire history is not representative of their capabilities and propensities, and instead they will unite into one glorious peaceful and yet world beating race of supermen.
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#25
RE: The Arab World before Islamism
(March 4, 2017 at 11:21 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(March 4, 2017 at 5:37 pm)Mr Greene Wrote: The UN option was vetoed by Russia and China, for their own interests.
Frankly the track record of dealing with ME problems is... not impressive...

All UN members are allies; friends.
That was the code that started the council anyways.

It's not "China" or "Russia" or "America". Rather, what business man A and B want. Then, the scenario will get orchestrated in the way most suitable to keep the public busy.

That's why problems never get solved.
They aren't allies the UN security council is composed of nuclear powers with the capability of exterminating the planetary population.
The UN is supposed to provide a forum to prevent their conflicts of interest from reaching a nuclear conclusion.
Alas the UN is heading the way of the League of Nations and has slipped a long way since the Suez Crisis.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
-Esquilax

Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#26
RE: The Arab World before Islamism
Actually, the UN Security Council permanent membership of 5 consisted of the major combatants on the winning side of WWII, and was determined when only the US had any serious nuclear weapons program.  

From 1945-1949 the US was the only nuclear power.  From 1949-1958 the Soviet Union, England and France developed nuclear weapons.  Mainland china developed nuclear weapons by 1963, but mainland china was not a even a member of UN at the time, much less a permanent member of the security council.  At the time Taiwan held the permanent seat in the UN Security Council as the successor of nationalist china that won WWII.  In 1972 mainland china took over taiwan's seat.  For the first time all 5 Veto members of UN Security Council were nuclear powers and no other power is thought to yet possess nuclear weapons.

But In 1974, India carried out her first nuclear test. In 1979 Israel is believed to have carried out her first nuclear test.   In the late 1980s South Africa is believed to have built, but not tested, a small stockpile of nuclear weapon, in 1998 India and Pakistan both tested numerous nuclear weapons and began a overt nuclear buildup, and in 2006 North Korea caries out her first nuclear test.

Thus the period from 1972-1974 was the only period in UN history when the only 5 veto wielding members also happen to be the only 5 members of the nuclear weapons club.    

Incidentally, in 1968 the 5 nuclear powers decided to set a system, outside the UN because china wasn't a member of UN, where they declared themselves to be the only 5 countries that can legitimately possess nuclear weapons.  All other states who would acquire nuclear weapons are illegitimate.    This is of course very convenient to the 5 states.

This framework has continued to color attitude towards nuclear nonproliferation down to the present day.
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