Philosophical ideas and acting "as though"

[henryp]

On the meditating, while I'm sure it works on some things, on others, I imagine it's the equivalent of 'praying the gay away.' You seem to have more faith in the ability of the conscious part of the brain to change the wiring of person than I do.

As to why keep some delusions? Delusions aren't always bad, particularly on the large scale social level. If someone thinks cleaning toilets is noble, because they are doing their part, and hard work is a virtue, that's good. If everyone more accurately viewed cleaning toilets as a horrible waste of what little time we have on the earth, our toilets would be a lot dirtier. Just like the illusion that people are responsible for their behavior. It creates a stigma that demonizes some behavior, which influences people's behavior. So even though free will is an illusion, their behavior is being manipulated by the lie in a way beneficial to society.

Another good one, is caring about people. I think the empathy some people feel for every human on earth is pretty nonsensical. But if everybody thought it was nonsensical, and behaved accordingly, that'd probably be bad. Or right there, me thinking the human race descending into chaos is 'bad', rather than a meaningless occurrence.

The other thing, is that our evolutionary response to things is a tangible thing. I'm programmed to want to live indefinitely for now. So it's natural I don't want to die. At what point, do we take ownership of our subconscious reactions, rather than view them as something separate that needs to be conquered? I'm scared of dying, because I'm programmed to be scared of dying. Is that not a rational justification? I don't have an opinion yet. Something I still think about.

[bennyboy]

On the meditating, while I'm sure it works on some things, on others, I imagine it's the equivalent of 'praying the gay away.'  You seem to have more faith in the ability of the conscious part of the brain to change the wiring of person than I do.

I'm not sure that a fear of heights is hard-wired. As for being gay-- it might be possible for a gay man to reflect deeply on social roles, his desired life, and maybe even learn to get an erection for a woman and have an orgasm.

But what a sad waste of energy that would be, no?

As to why keep some delusions?  Delusions aren't always bad, particularly on the large scale social level.  If someone thinks cleaning toilets is noble, because they are doing their part, and hard work is a virtue, that's good.  If everyone more accurately viewed cleaning toilets as a horrible waste of what little time we have on the earth, our toilets would be a lot dirtier.  Just like the illusion that people are responsible for their behavior.  It creates a stigma that demonizes some behavior, which influences people's behavior.  So even though free will is an illusion, their behavior is being manipulated by the lie in a way beneficial to society.

Yeah, not all philosophical ideas that you might want to dedicate yourself to can be called truths. No doubt. But I'd say it's better for a person to really believe it is noble to care for the hygiene of others than simply to nod when the boss says something like it, and have to pretend in order to keep a job.

The other thing, is that our evolutionary response to things is a tangible thing.  I'm programmed to want to live indefinitely for now.  So it's natural I don't want to die.  At what point, do we take ownership of our subconscious reactions, rather than view them as something separate that needs to be conquered?  I'm scared of dying, because I'm programmed to be scared of dying.  Is that not a rational justification?  I don't have an opinion yet.  Something I still think about.

For sure. I'm not here to champion a particular philosophical idea, though I've given a couple examples. My point is that confidently held (and especially, confidently expressed) opinions should migrate from cognition to ingrained beliefs, rather than treated as pearls to be held in the spotlight and shown off.

--edit--
I'm enjoying our discussion. I think you've made some really good points, tbh.

[henryp]

I think a lot of the reason there is resistance and general hypocrisy on the issue of the truth, is that the truth, from my perspective, isn't inherently valuable. There are no bonus points for living a logical life. What I ended up concluding is that it's all a very results oriented system. As a wise philosopher once said, "Whatever floats your boat."

If you live a happy life in a cult, in my arbitrary scorebook, you've done well. If you can convince yourself you're a good person without the burden of being a good person, that's a double win.

What is it about the truth, for you, that you've elevated it to a thing to be sought after, and lived according to? What's the source for your assigning it value above non-truths? Is it coincidental, in that usually living according to the truth gets better results to whatever your true goal is, or is the truth itself the goal?