At What Point Does Activism Become Assholism?

[Shell B]

So, I'm fairly convinced there is an area to either extreme of every issue where people turn into total dicks, even if they have the best intentions. You see it with vegans and their bullshit, "you hate the Earth" and "you don't care about living things." You see it with LGBT rights activists, "You don't know all the pronouns or choose to use what you grew up with because language, so you're homophobic." You see it with pro-lifers, "You should go to jail because I disagree with you." or worse, "you should die because I disagree with you." You see it with Republicans and Democrats. You see it with Libertarians and Liberals. Every group has a sub-group of people who have just turned their cause célèbre into an excuse to denigrate others. No matter how valid the cause, these people make it look like a heaping pile of shit.

For me, it's clear when activism takes the plunge into assholism. When you start declaring people homophobes, snowflakes, racists, libtards, etc. without either A. taking the time to consider the other person's side and reason with them politely or B. having heard them say anything that proves your claim against them, you are an asshole, not an activist. You don't care enough about your cause to be patient and try to change people's minds. You only want people to know you're on what you think is the right side. You couldn't care less if other people join you there. If you want to kill or hurt people who don't agree with you, you're an asshole. If you think people shouldn't have the conversations they are having because there are poor people suffering. If you think your obese kid should finish his plate because kids are starving in Africa . . . you're an asshole.

We're on the Internet. We see this shit all the time. Just don't get pulled into it. Don't hate all vegans because some are twats. Don't start thinking everyone who supports the LGBT community is an asshole. Don't hate all Republicans because some are actual racist homophobes. Remember, some of them are just fiscally conservative or grew up in a Republican area. My point is, if you let a vocal sub-group on the Internet make you feel like everyone who calls themselves "XYZ" believes "ZYX," you're going to see enemies around every corner. Get to know people. Maybe you'll find they think more like you than you thought or that you're okay with what they think because they have a good reason for being that way. People are made up of countless experiences, memories, feelings, etc. It's never as simple as you think.

[Regina]

It's when you expect everyone to automatically agree with you on everything, and when you expect people to respect any opinion you hold just because you're a minority in some way, as if that means something.

People deserve respect, ideas don't.

And I would also add, part of the reason the political Right-wing are currently trampling all over the progress The Left have spent decades making is because of these types of people. If the best argument you've got to throw at someone is that they're "racist", they're "homophobic", they're "transphobic" etc, you better sit the fuck down and make way for activists who can actually debate, because these ad-hominem techniques just don't work anymore in the current political climate. People now shrug off accusations of bigotry as the total non-arguments they've become, because they've become so over-used they don't mean anything anymore, and that's scary. It opens up a lot of further arguments, some actually very bigoted, that we thought we'd put to bed a long time ago.

[brewer]

Your freedom to be an activist stops where my nose starts.

[vorlon13]

So, I'm fairly convinced there is an area to either extreme of every issue where people turn into total dicks, even if they have the best intentions. You see it with vegans and their bullshit, "you hate the Earth" and "you don't care about living things." You see it with LGBT rights activists, "You don't know all the pronouns or choose to use what you grew up with because language, so you're homophobic." You see it with pro-lifers, "You should go to jail because I disagree with you." or worse, "you should die because I disagree with you." You see it with Republicans and Democrats. You see it with Libertarians and Liberals. Every group has a sub-group of people who have just turned their cause célèbre into an excuse to denigrate others. No matter how valid the cause, these people make it look like a heaping pile of shit.

For me, it's clear when activism takes the plunge into assholism. When you start declaring people homophobes, snowflakes, racists, libtards, etc. without either A. taking the time to consider the other person's side and reason with them politely or B. having heard them say anything that proves your claim against them, you are an asshole, not an activist. You don't care enough about your cause to be patient and try to change people's minds. You only want people to know you're on what you think is the right side. You couldn't care less if other people join you there. If you want to kill or hurt people who don't agree with you, you're an asshole. If you think people shouldn't have the conversations they are having because there are poor people suffering. If you think your obese kid should finish his plate because kids are starving in Africa . . . you're an asshole.

We're on the Internet. We see this shit all the time. Just don't get pulled into it. Don't hate all vegans because some are twats. Don't start thinking everyone who supports the LGBT community is an asshole. Don't hate all Republicans because some are actual racist homophobes. Remember, some of them are just fiscally conservative or grew up in a Republican area. My point is, if you let a vocal sub-group on the Internet make you feel like everyone who calls themselves "XYZ" believes "ZYX," you're going to see enemies around every corner. Get to know people. Maybe you'll find they think more like you than you thought or that you're okay with what they think because they have a good reason for being that way. People are made up of countless experiences, memories, feelings, etc. It's never as simple as you think.

You don't have to be so shrill and strident about making your point.

[Shell B]

Vorlon, I've never doubted I'm an asshole. It's my best quality . . . and my best feature.

[brewer]

Vorlon, I've never doubted I'm an asshole. It's my best quality . . . and my best feature.

Holy moly, you certainly give great image!

[Alex K]

Yes. But what's not being an unreasonable asshole in my opinion is standing behind your convictions and advertising them. I think religious people are dangerously mistaken and I don't think I have to shut up about it. I wouldn't out of politeness let someone jump out of a window either just because they believe they can fly. I also don't think that religious people should politely shut up about their beliefs either - if they really are believers they should honestly feel that their belief is the most important thing in the world and everyone should find out about it.

Assholism starts if you crash auntie's memorial service yelling "God is dead, and aunt Mary, too!"

[Shell B]

Yes. But what's not being an unreasonable asshole in my opinion is standing behind your convictions and advertising them.

Absolutely. Stating your position, living by it and even having open conversations about it is not at all being an asshole.

I think religious people are dangerously mistaken and I don't think I have to shut up about it.

Certainly. You don't even have to be polite about it. Are you going to tell them to stop talking about their religion? Are you going to say they belong in jail for their beliefs alone? I doubt it.

I wouldn't out of politeness let someone jump out of a window either just because they believe they can fly.

Maybe not out of politeness, but I might out of curiosity. Maybe he really can fly! Have you seen Legion?

I also don't think that religious people should politely shut up about their beliefs either - if they really are believers they should honestly feel that their belief is the most important thing in the world and everyone should find out about it.

I completely agree–unless they're on my porch.

Assholism starts if you crash auntie's memorial service yelling "God is dead, and aunt Mary, too!"

Yep! Although, if it's my Aunty Mary's funeral, feel free. That woman's a nightmare.

[Brian37]

We are all the same species. I most certainly DO NOT hate all theists or even all republicans AS individuals. But we also don't own any claim blind value. My mom knew for a long time how I felt about her beliefs, I used to hold them. Even when I told her "I don't buy that a magic cracker will save you" She still loved me, and as many here know from recent events, she was my biggest supporter and wish she was still here.

But if you have your choice between political correctness, or free speech, in the west it seems to me the evidence is clear, you have to let people say things that offend you. As atheists we should know and we don't just get that demonizing from one religion, but countless, just like the far right of Christianity and Islam demonize each other. And to say there are not far right Jews with as much hate would be a myth.

In the west what matters to me, is not that we piss each other off, but how we respond. If you don't like Isis condemning outsiders for blasphemy, and you don't like far right Christians for calling for the condemnation of LGBT it should not matter who on the globe demonstrates more violence. I don't even like it when atheists make the absurd notion that eventually all 7 billion of us can eventually be one godless planet.

But having said that. I still stand by that if ANYONE of any label lands in bed at night safe, and you don't die, and the worst you got was offended, you are having a much better day than many Christians and Muslims and Jews and atheists and LGBT than other parts of the world.

I do get tired, of even atheists thinking the cure is censorship and never being offended. If all 7 billion humans got to write laws for the entire planet, there is not one group, atheist or theist, that could not think of things they would not want to hear from others.

What matters to me most, is that everyone agrees to NON VIOLENCE and that nobody has the right to assault someone else just because they pissed you off. The rest to me is about logic and facts. We all can control our physical actions, but we cannot control the thoughts of others.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I'm with mh on this one.  Activism is all well and good (and I've done my share of it for various causes), but assholism begins when an activist imagines that their own pet cause gives them the liberty to impinge on the rights of the people who don't whole-heartedly share their views.  You want to campaign for Christ?  Go right ahead, but don't for one minute suppose that this gives you some sort of right to harangue and harass me about him.  You don't think people should eat meat?  Dandy, don't eat it.  But don't come all veganner-than-thou when you see me enjoying an oh so tasty burger.

Oh, and you PETA bungholes?  If you don't agree with people wearing animal pelts, then don't wear them yourself and don't support the fur industry.  But your activism becomes assholism when you throw fake blood one some woman wearing a fur collar (for the record, have you ever met a mink?  Nasty little beasts).

Boru