At What Point Does Activism Become Assholism?

[Catholic_Lady]

Applause!!!!!

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So, I'm fairly convinced there is an area to either extreme of every issue where people turn into total dicks, even if they have the best intentions. You see it with vegans and their bullshit, "you hate the Earth" and "you don't care about living things." You see it with LGBT rights activists, "You don't know all the pronouns or choose to use what you grew up with because language, so you're homophobic." You see it with pro-lifers, "You should go to jail because I disagree with you." or worse, "you should die because I disagree with you." You see it with Republicans and Democrats. You see it with Libertarians and Liberals. Every group has a sub-group of people who have just turned their cause célèbre into an excuse to denigrate others. No matter how valid the cause, these people make it look like a heaping pile of shit.

For me, it's clear when activism takes the plunge into assholism. When you start declaring people homophobes, snowflakes, racists, libtards, etc. without either A. taking the time to consider the other person's side and reason with them politely or B. having heard them say anything that proves your claim against them, you are an asshole, not an activist. You don't care enough about your cause to be patient and try to change people's minds. You only want people to know you're on what you think is the right side. You couldn't care less if other people join you there. If you want to kill or hurt people who don't agree with you, you're an asshole. If you think people shouldn't have the conversations they are having because there are poor people suffering. If you think your obese kid should finish his plate because kids are starving in Africa . . . you're an asshole.

We're on the Internet. We see this shit all the time. Just don't get pulled into it. Don't hate all vegans because some are twats. Don't start thinking everyone who supports the LGBT community is an asshole. Don't hate all Republicans because some are actual racist homophobes. Remember, some of them are just fiscally conservative or grew up in a Republican area. My point is, if you let a vocal sub-group on the Internet make you feel like everyone who calls themselves "XYZ" believes "ZYX," you're going to see enemies around every corner. Get to know people. Maybe you'll find they think more like you than you thought or that you're okay with what they think because they have a good reason for being that way. People are made up of countless experiences, memories, feelings, etc. It's never as simple as you think.

You don't have to be so shrill and strident about making your point.

I love the way she writes lol. I'm often too polite. I wish I could just let go sometimes and raise hell the way she does. Give them mofos a piece of my mind haha.

[vorlon13]

keep your mind and fling poo . . . .

[emjay]

It feels good to be an asshole sometimes... no denying it Usually I don't get angry long enough to be one (in my own opinion at least... others may see me differently ) because I try and step back from it and be Buddhist about it, but if I fail to do that or before that happens, I can be a bit of a bitch

[Shell B]

I love the way she writes lol. I'm often too polite. I wish I could just let go sometimes and raise hell the way she does. Give them mofos a piece of my mind haha.

I would lose my fucking mind if I was polite all the time. I'm polite as a rule when the interaction is neutral or if I'm the first to initiate an interaction, but if shit goes south, I don't have the energy to hold back. It's not always a good thing.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Vorlon, I've never doubted I'm an asshole. It's my best quality . . . and my best feature.

This was basically inspired by me on the trans people in sport thread wasn't it. Yes I was deliberately being an arsehole to you but that was because I was perceiving you to be one.

It occurs to me that's we're all arseholes to the theists on this forum who almost invatiably are also arseholes.

[brewer]

keep your mind and fling poo . . . .

Unfortunately she not a flinger, just a flusher.

[emjay]

Vorlon, I've never doubted I'm an asshole. It's my best quality . . . and my best feature.

This was basically inspired by me on the trans people in sport thread wasn't it. Yes I was deliberately being an arsehole to you but that was because I was perceiving you to be one.

It occurs to me that's we're all arseholes to the theists on this forum who almost invatiably are also arseholes.

That's so refreshing to hear someone say; we're all arseholes (or can be)... words to live by

[Jackalope]

Personally I think activists who stoop to such things are counterproductive to their cause. I see it as a tell that one is overplaying one's hand, to use a poker metaphor.

Such tactics appear designed to keep the believers believing and demonize opposing views. They aren't convincing IMO

[Brian37]

This was basically inspired by me on the trans people in sport thread wasn't it. Yes I was deliberately being an arsehole to you but that was because I was perceiving you to be one.

It occurs to me that's we're all arseholes to the theists on this forum who almost invatiably are also arseholes.

That's so refreshing to hear someone say; we're all arseholes (or can be)... words to live by

Thats it right there. When theists bitch about our bitching they cannot claim it isn't fair.

Atheist "There is no such thing as a God/god/s"

Theist, "That offends me, you will burn in hell"

Atheist, " That offends me that you think I deserve eternal torture merely for using my own brain".

So yea, say illogical things all you want but don't expect me to roll over blindly. 

I care less about being offended and more about what you claim is "evidence".

[Neo-Scholastic]

As driver in Chicago, I find myself incapable of road rage. Sometimes the lane marking are ambigious, intersections confusing, and some areas to congested for polite merging. One road crew can turn a 15 min trip into an hour long delay. I cannot complain when sometimes people cut me off or make some bone-headed U-turn, because sometimes I'm that guy. The car driving on the the shoulder to jump to the front of the line? He left home to be an hour early, but one road crew and an accident on the expressway turned his fifteen minute trip into an hour and a half. In five minutes his $150 Civic Opera tickets will be worthless. While there may be some genuine jerks the fact of the matter, I live in an area where navigating the roads puts everyone in compromising situations with no good solutions. My point is that we live in an imperfect world and even our best efforts warp and twist us in morally suspect way.

I think people become unreasonable when they mistakenly believe Utopia is possible - the world would be so much better is everyone just (fill in the blank). The problem is that many morally laudable goals are mutually exclusive. Open borders are incompatible with a national social safety net. Eliminating environmentally damaging pesticides like DDT allows wide-spread malaria epidemics. Reducing animal fibers and pelts increases the need for petroleum-based non-biodegradable synthetics. Most recycling programs are energy and labor intensive. Land that produces locally grown organic produce reduces the overall food supply.

The pretense of Western society is that we have largely eliminated or are working to eliminate the violence, brutality, inequalities, and ethnic divisions that plagued prior eras. But we haven't. We've just pushed them out of sight both - actually, by exporting it to the third-world, or intellectually by not recognizing the underlying concepts that seem morally obvious but actually move their implicit violence out of our consciousness. A person may feel good about themselves knowing that the cotton shirt he bought at TJ Maxx did not kill a cage-raised mink or traumatize any sheep but only so long as he doesn't think about the Sri Lankin wage-slaves who pieced it together in sweat-shops or the pesticides and ammonia fertilizers needed to grow the cotton at the scale necessary to make producing it economically viable.

So while conservatives may want to go back to the "good'ole days" that never existed or stick with the "devil-you-know" so-called progressives push for a utopia that cannot exist fraught with unknown perils. This is not to say people should give up and not try to improve the human condition. We should. It's just that the TrueBelievers tend to blind themselves of the relationship between intentions and actual outcomes. In the words of the OP, people become "dicks" when they lack the humility to consider how carefully and incrementally changes need to be made so as not to create a worse situation than before or when they do not realize that their moral luxuries are often paid for by far-away and out-of-sight strangers.

So really, can anyone shake their fist in outrage at "that guy" cutting him off when further down the road he'll be blocking an intersection.