So Apparently We Have An AG Who Doesn't Think Hawaii Is A State.

[Brian37]

But if Hawaii isn't America any more, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor for nothing!

That was the Japanese

That was a joke from an old comedy movie about a frat house called Animal House Alex was referencing.

[Minimalist]

Again, Brian, when speaking in generalities some poor bastard is always going to get tarred with the wrong brush.  But the WLB won some of these counties with 75% of the vote.  I'm sorry your friend lives among them but if they were stupid enough to vote for slogans and a crooked asshole with a hat then they get what they deserve.

Your friend should move.

Oh so you know him personally? 

This is the same crappy argument I hear from the far right about Islam, "Let em take care of their own countries". 

No sorry, our map wont expand thinking like that. Do you want more blue states or do you simply want to keep losing? Do you want a more secular middle east? 

Yes I agree that the middle of the country is still far to conservative, but no you don't have any clue what you are talking about when it comes to my personal friend. My Mom was a mostly lifetime voting republican and she raised me in pluralistic Northern Va. 

How many times have we heard from far right bigots "If you don't like America leave", now here you are telling a fellow liberal "If you don't like your state leave". 

I will defend my friend and no, he doesn't have to move, he has as much right to stay where he is at as atheists have the right to live in America. 

This is why we keep losing. We allow the GOP to divide the races. We allow the GOP to pit urban poor against republican rural poor and I will not abandon an liberal in any state. He doesn't want us saying "fuck you" to him, he wants our help so he can flip Oklahoma blue. And they did have a DEMOCRAT governor at one point, so it is bullshit to say we shouldn't try.

You are not going to pull that "us vs them" crap trying to pit me against a very kind empathetic person. My suggestion is that you get to know people first and only judge the individual. I am fine going after bigots, but just like Muslims I will not lump all "rednecks" in one lump. Just like some atheists whom are not "rednecks" do support Trump. 

Now you talk of percentages. You do understand 30 years ago the polls asking if Americans would consider atheists for public office were nothing, and while we may not be at the top of the list, the polling is far better now. 

So you would not vote for John because he likes banjos and country music even if he is for LGBT and is for the economic left? Stupid to me as a tactic if you want our policies to cover more of the nation.

"We will never get those red states" sounds like "we will never have a black president".

Sure, if you've already written liberals in those states off we wont grow long term.

No, I don't know him, other than what you've said which I'll accept at face value.  But it doesn't matter.  He is clearly outnumbered by the assholes.  If he wishes to stay where he is then he will have to deal with state and local governments which deny medicaid expansion, deny LGBT rights, which seek to force women to have ultrasounds before abortions and try to make them impossible to get under any circumstances.  They can have pipelines on their front lawns while the state poisons them with lead in their water to save money.  They can have governors who trash state budgets while cutting taxes on billionaires and corporations ( which are really the same thing) and then seek to punish children by cutting education budgets but they always have the money for death penalty cases, more prisons (privately run at excessive cost, of course) and to defend the utterly unconstitutional laws they pass all the way to the supreme court!  One of the consequences of having an electorate which falls for slogans and flag-waving is that the upper classes dominate while the poor get fucked over more and more but what can you do when it seems that all they want is very simple solutions to complex problems and if they don't work they will close their eyes, click their heels together, say "I want to go home" and convince themselves that things are better anyway.

Be clear about something.  I don't give a shit about the 60-million odd morons who voted for the WLB.  Given population increases he did no better with his base than McCain and Romney did.  They are assholes for a variety of reasons perhaps but assholes nonetheless.  You aren't getting them "back."  You haven't had them since Nixon with his "moral majority" horseshit.  My complaint is with the Democrats and so-called Progressives/Independents who sat on their asses because Clinton was not "perfect."  Well, if you intend to wait for "perfect" then you may as well give up now because perfect never runs in our elections.  The system mitigates against it.

I'm glad I'm old.  I won't have to watch the slow-speed train wreck that America is becoming for very long.

[Brian37]

Oh so you know him personally? 

This is the same crappy argument I hear from the far right about Islam, "Let em take care of their own countries". 

No sorry, our map wont expand thinking like that. Do you want more blue states or do you simply want to keep losing? Do you want a more secular middle east? 

Yes I agree that the middle of the country is still far to conservative, but no you don't have any clue what you are talking about when it comes to my personal friend. My Mom was a mostly lifetime voting republican and she raised me in pluralistic Northern Va. 

How many times have we heard from far right bigots "If you don't like America leave", now here you are telling a fellow liberal "If you don't like your state leave". 

I will defend my friend and no, he doesn't have to move, he has as much right to stay where he is at as atheists have the right to live in America. 

This is why we keep losing. We allow the GOP to divide the races. We allow the GOP to pit urban poor against republican rural poor and I will not abandon an liberal in any state. He doesn't want us saying "fuck you" to him, he wants our help so he can flip Oklahoma blue. And they did have a DEMOCRAT governor at one point, so it is bullshit to say we shouldn't try.

You are not going to pull that "us vs them" crap trying to pit me against a very kind empathetic person. My suggestion is that you get to know people first and only judge the individual. I am fine going after bigots, but just like Muslims I will not lump all "rednecks" in one lump. Just like some atheists whom are not "rednecks" do support Trump. 

Now you talk of percentages. You do understand 30 years ago the polls asking if Americans would consider atheists for public office were nothing, and while we may not be at the top of the list, the polling is far better now. 

So you would not vote for John because he likes banjos and country music even if he is for LGBT and is for the economic left? Stupid to me as a tactic if you want our policies to cover more of the nation.

"We will never get those red states" sounds like "we will never have a black president".

Sure, if you've already written liberals in those states off we wont grow long term.

No, I don't know him, other than what you've said which I'll accept at face value.  But it doesn't matter.  He is clearly outnumbered by the assholes.  If he wishes to stay where he is then he will have to deal with state and local governments which deny medicaid expansion, deny LGBT rights, which seek to force women to have ultrasounds before abortions and try to make them impossible to get under any circumstances.  They can have pipelines on their front lawns while the state poisons them with lead in their water to save money.  They can have governors who trash state budgets while cutting taxes on billionaires and corporations ( which are really the same thing) and then seek to punish children by cutting education budgets but they always have the money for death penalty cases, more prisons (privately run at excessive cost, of course) and to defend the utterly unconstitutional laws they pass all the way to the supreme court!  One of the consequences of having an electorate which falls for slogans and flag-waving is that the upper classes dominate while the poor get fucked over more and more but what can you do when it seems that all they want is very simple solutions to complex problems and if they don't work they will close their eyes, click their heels together, say "I want to go home" and convince themselves that things are better anyway.

Be clear about something.  I don't give a shit about the 60-million odd morons who voted for the WLB.  Given population increases he did no better with his base than McCain and Romney did.  They are assholes for a variety of reasons perhaps but assholes nonetheless.  You aren't getting them "back."  You haven't had them since Nixon with his "moral majority" horseshit.  My complaint is with the Democrats and so-called Progressives/Independents who sat on their asses because Clinton was not "perfect."  Well, if you intend to wait for "perfect" then you may as well give up now because perfect never runs in our elections.  The system mitigates against it.

I'm glad I'm old.  I won't have to watch the slow-speed train wreck that America is becoming for very long.

He'd agree that there are far more deeply religious people than their are redneck liberals yes, but how the fuck does that help the coast states who just lost the rust belt and how does  that help him in his state. Again, that would be like a white person during the age of segregation when the desegregation to a black person, "I feel for you man, but it's no use". 

He is well aware of the bigots but it is unfair to him using that cop out "He's outnumbered" just like it would be unfair to blacks if whites back then said, "Oh well, what are you going to do"?

Now go watch a few of the "Liberal Redneck" comedian videos he also hates the assholes in his bunch too, but we cannot keep allowing the GOP to do that to America. I want more blue states and you should as well, and it is because of people like John and comedians like Trea that can help us. They are how we defeat the right.

The good thing is more and more young people are not buying the bigotry of their parents too. Don't write him off merely because of where he lives.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why do people think that "RED" and "BLUE" states are solid blocs? Frequently a state or district is carried by a few percentage points.

[Brian37]

Why do people think that "RED" and "BLUE" states are solid blocs? Frequently a state or district is carried by a few percentage points.

The news media does a great disservice to the public when it comes to neutrality by speaking in terms of Red and Blue, states are never all red or all blue, some are mostly conservative others are mostly liberal and some are swing states. If we want to solve economic issues, for both urban blacks and poor rural whites and the middle class in swing states, we have to stop allowing the GOP to control the narrative by scaring the shit out of everyone. 

I don't know what happened with CNN and MSNBC but it seems they are trying to compete with Fox, and they were long ago the liberal counterpart. But just like with most big businesses most corporate CEOS vote economic right. 

I use "blue" to mean economic stability and protection of minorities. But that map is still not representative at the end of the election by painting it all red or all blue. That only represents the electoral numbers.

[CapnAwesome]

Do you disagree that it's an Island in the pacific? That's kind of shocking.

[Brian37]

Do you disagree that it's an Island in the pacific? That's kind of shocking.

Oh bullshit, the AG's bigoted comment is a dog whistle meat for the assholes who bought the "Obama is a secret Muslim" birther crap and "any liberal judge or minority judge has to be overreaching". 

Yes it is an Island in the Pacific, and it is still a State someone not liking it being a majority liberal does not mean the judge who ruled over that State's argument is unqualified to serve on the bench.

[CapnAwesome]

Do you disagree that it's an Island in the pacific? That's kind of shocking.

Oh bullshit, the AG's bigoted comment is a dog whistle meat for the assholes who bought the "Obama is a secret Muslim" birther crap and "any liberal judge or minority judge has to be overreaching". 

Yes it is an Island in the Pacific, and it is still a State someone not liking it being a majority liberal does not mean the judge who ruled over that State's argument is unqualified to serve on the bench.

What I'm saying is that he didn't deny it being a state. I don't see that anywhere in his statement. Something can be an Island in the pacific and a state. Did you know that? Wow, something can be two things at once.

I mean, I loath Jeff Sessions. I think he's the worst Trump cabinet member, but to pretend that by saying that Hawaii is an Island that he must not think it's a state is just lazy propaganda to only be believed by people who will believe anything bad about the people they don't like.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Alaska used to belong to the Tsars.

[Anomalocaris]

Alaska used to belong to the Tsars.

You can still see the tsars from its porch.