Can someone tell me where in the 2nd amendment it says you can carry machine guns?

[brewer]

Got my hands on a 1919 this weekend. ABBA didn't stand a chance, but neither did the Bee Gees or ELO. I think Toto bit it also, don't hold me to that, they were not in my set.

I bet it is fun to shoot things up so? Is that machine gun a want or a need? Is your aim that bad you cant hit an ABBA cd with a 22 rifle or shotgun or 38? And exactly how does shooting an ABBA CD save lives? I could understand it as a stress release, but again, you could shot things with paint ball guns too. You could hit that same ABBA CD with a 22, unless your aim sucks.

 I am sure you have a practical need for it, like say military service? Nice fold out legs for laying on your stomach, funny thing, never seen an Armor'ed car driver carry one of those. Oh you are a bounty hunter is that it? Nope, never seen a bounty hunter carry one. Oh you need them to shoot deer, bet you cant kill a dear with a 22 or bow and arrow. 

Yea I google imaged 1919, looks like a want and not a necessity. At least when Gawdzilla talks about his he admits they are safer locked up at the gun range and he doesn't need them at home or in public.

What's a CD?

[Brian37]

Brian: "Didn't you also say in another post that you keep them locked up at a gun range and no longer keep them at home? "

When I couldn't face buying another gun safe I sent the collectible ones to the Smithsonian. They only wanted one of them, the rest were in the "tradeable" collection, to swap with other museums. The last guns I kept at home were in a safe, I donated the other safes to my more sensible relatives. Now that we live near a range we have a safe there. Gun stores don't get robbed too much.

The .50 is long-term loan to a certain state agency that might have to shoot an engine block in half some day. We "fam. fire" it once a year, I get free ammo.

More than you think or want to realize, I have heard 3 stories in the past year of local gun stores being robbed. You can wait till it closes, get a strong enough pick up, chain to the door pull it open, or simply smash the window with that pick up, take a hammer with you, smash the cases, when you get in, load up and run, depending on how far the police are, you could get away even with the alarms going off. You can rob any store of any product that way, happens all the time, even to gun shops. I would never do that because I am not a criminal but I do see those smash and grabs on the news all the time.

One of the robberies an armed man went in, store owner had a gun aimed at them, they were smart enough not to go for theirs, he took what he wanted and left. Having a gun does not insure safety, not even in a gun shop. 

Glad you have a safe too, good for you, glass cases are a joke. But even then, if your firearms are rightfully locked up in your home safe, and someone breaks in, it would take you time to open the safe. I bet you could chase someone off without a gun if they didn't know you were there, if you had a very loud noise horn leaned out the window and blew it and shouted at the intruder, "the police are on their way". 

Again, it is a lie that most gun interactions between two armed people are between a good guy and a complete stranger. MOST gun use that results in injury or death happens with the user in the home or between them and someone they are familiar with.

[Jeanne]

I agree, Brian, you and I both have a right to discuss our viewpoints....for now.  Those same powerful people who seek to remove our 2nd amendment rights have been hard at work for many years attempting to do away with our right to speak freely.  If you haven't noticed that, then maybe you aren't noticing much that those who would see a Communist America have been doing bit by bit, nudge by nudge...progressive tactics well learned over a century.

I find it interesting, GS, that you went automatically from gun rights to prayer.  Do you think those who support our 2nd amendment must be theists in reality?  I don't pray because I am an atheist, but damn right that sounds like an amazing firearm!  

I find it odd that a gun enthusiast like yourself links other atheists who own guns with theists.  Why do you own guns?  Why do you have what seems to be some superior attitude about your gun ownership?  Why do you believe that only you can own guns and speak about guns and the 2nd in a rational manner?  Will your guns not fire bullets into living flesh with the goal of killing?

Another poster just said it was past time that all guns be removed from those of us, who own them.  Did they mean from you, as well?  Do you believe that will ensure a safer world?  No...you aren't that naive, are you?

If it is crime that you mean to scour from the nation, then talk about those tactics that actually work.  Our courts should prosecute petty crimes committed with firearms to the fullest extent possible.  Assault with a gun handled the same.  Then we could begin on crimes committed with knives and when the criminals start using acid, the courts could prosecute them again to the fullest extent possible.  Soon...only law-abiding citizens will own guns and knives and acid and the criminal element of society will be totally outlawed and banned.  Or something like that...kind of, maybe, possibly...

Yes...let us get all the guns out of the hands of criminals first.

We don't have to wait for one to do the other. Has anyone said we need to cure heart disease before working on cancer? Of course not.

There is no comparison!  If law-abiding gun owners turn in all their guns, then it is open season.  Why do you think most mass murders take place in gun-free zones?  Because the criminally insane know that there are no armed people there, excepting maybe a token security guard.

And...sorry if I misled you, GS, I was writing tongue-in-cheek in that paragraph before.

Getting guns away from criminals and prosecuting them fully is just another part of the security of a free state.  It doesn't negate the 2nd amendment's requirement for the nation's citizens to be responsive to that security by being well-regulated and bearing arms.

-Jeanne

---

---

Brian, you have not stated that you want to ban all guns. But you seem to deny that there are those with power that want to do that. THEY want to disarm the citizens of America who own guns. THEY have their nefarious reasons for wanting that...and it has little to do with crime.

That slope we have been slipping down for some time, as well as, slipping down the others that lead to loss of individual liberty. THEY would relegate the Bill of Rights to the trash bin.

I do not misunderstand you at all. You want people to never die needlessly and you believe that guns make needless death more likely. You believe that severely restricting guns and bullets, via limited magazine capacity, will do that. I don't.

You believe that what you believe is common sense and rational. I don't. I believe that it is naive.

Accidents happen. Stupid accidents happen. Mental breaks happen. Evil people exist.

I appreciate your concern about needless death; it is most certainly one that I share. I will not trade the right and responsibility of bearing arms for a dream of security offered by a central government that above all else seeks to control more and more of its citizens thoughts and activities.

-Jeanne

[Brian37]

We don't have to wait for one to do the other. Has anyone said we need to cure heart disease before working on cancer? Of course not.

There is no comparison!  If law-abiding gun owners turn in all their guns, then it is open season.  Why do you think most mass murders take place in gun-free zones?  Because the criminally insane know that there are no armed people there, excepting maybe a token security guard.

And...sorry if I misled you, GS, I was writing tongue-in-cheek in that paragraph before.

Getting guns away from criminals and prosecuting them fully is just another part of the security of a free state.  It doesn't negate the 2nd amendment's requirement for the nation's citizens to be responsive to that security by being well-regulated and bearing arms.

-Jeanne

---

---

Brian, you have not stated that you want to ban all guns.  But you seem to deny that there are those with power that want to do that.  THEY want to disarm the citizens of America who own guns.  THEY have their nefarious reasons for wanting that...and it has little to do with crime.  

That slope we have been slipping down for some time, as well as, slipping down the others that lead to loss of individual liberty.  THEY would relegate the Bill of Rights to the trash bin.

I do not misunderstand you at all.  You want people to never die needlessly and you believe that guns make needless death more likely.  You believe that severely restricting guns and bullets, via limited magazine capacity, will do that.  I don't.

You believe that what you believe is common sense and rational.  I don't.  I believe that it is naive.  

Accidents happen.  Stupid accidents happen.  Mental breaks happen.  Evil people exist.  

I appreciate your concern about needless death; it is most certainly one that I share.  I will not trade the right and responsibility of bearing arms for a dream of security offered by a central government that above all else seeks to control more and more of its citizens thoughts and activities.

-Jeanne

Nobody wants all guns banned, if anyone here wants that, I am not with them. 

But the government tyranny is a horrible argument. "The founders used weapons to fight the king" true. Nobody is arguing that. But the problem with that argument is that there is no religious or political party oath to own and keep a firearm. I spent 8 years listening to all the tea party nuts scream about how they knew Obama was going to be a tyrant. He left office so that blows that argument out of the water. By that logic, since I have no record right now, and can legally buy a firearm, not that I want to, but I can, and am currently scared of the damage Trump could do, so by that logic, I have even more right to own firearms.

The founders never meant for individuals to act like Rambo. Well regulated militia. Militia is now what we call the National Guard. The only thing that could lead to a one party liberal state, or a one party far right state is lack of enforcement of anti monopoly concepts. Voting is not there to give absolute decision making to either party or any one lobby. If you want to avoid government tyranny, you vote and you speak out, you don't call for armed revolutions.

Government has tanks and Jets now, so I don't think even the left could pull off a revolution much less the right.

---

We don't have to wait for one to do the other. Has anyone said we need to cure heart disease before working on cancer? Of course not.

There is no comparison!  If law-abiding gun owners turn in all their guns, then it is open season.  Why do you think most mass murders take place in gun-free zones?  Because the criminally insane know that there are no armed people there, excepting maybe a token security guard.

And...sorry if I misled you, GS, I was writing tongue-in-cheek in that paragraph before.

Getting guns away from criminals and prosecuting them fully is just another part of the security of a free state.  It doesn't negate the 2nd amendment's requirement for the nation's citizens to be responsive to that security by being well-regulated and bearing arms.

-Jeanne

---

---

Brian, you have not stated that you want to ban all guns.  But you seem to deny that there are those with power that want to do that.  THEY want to disarm the citizens of America who own guns.  THEY have their nefarious reasons for wanting that...and it has little to do with crime.  

That slope we have been slipping down for some time, as well as, slipping down the others that lead to loss of individual liberty.  THEY would relegate the Bill of Rights to the trash bin.

I do not misunderstand you at all.  You want people to never die needlessly and you believe that guns make needless death more likely.  You believe that severely restricting guns and bullets, via limited magazine capacity, will do that.  I don't.

You believe that what you believe is common sense and rational.  I don't.  I believe that it is naive.  

Accidents happen.  Stupid accidents happen.  Mental breaks happen.  Evil people exist.  

I appreciate your concern about needless death; it is most certainly one that I share.  I will not trade the right and responsibility of bearing arms for a dream of security offered by a central government that above all else seeks to control more and more of its citizens thoughts and activities.

-Jeanne

Did you not even read the two articles I posted  from long time GUN OWNERS one a retired Navy Vet and the other former Budweiser CEO, those don't seem to me as being one party fascist commie lovers.

NOBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE YOUR RIGHTS AWAY. You don't appreciate my concern otherwise you would not be repeating the same old fear mongering arguments. 

Our SCOTUS a GOP SCOTUS SCALIA REPUBLICAN also said firearms can be regulated and are not a free for all.

Stop it with the bullshit slippery slope crap, the far right has been screaming "they are coming for my guns" for 30 years Obama was supposed to become a tyrant according to the far right and that didn't happen.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I own a fully functional Browning M2 .05 cal. HMG, and I have a completely legal license for it.

I stand corrected.

Also, just wanted to say how much fun I'd think it to be to fire off a few hundred with Ma Deuce.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Reference : New Scientist, 6 May 2017, page 22

In the first four months of this year, there have been 105 mass shootings in the USA (defined as more than one person shot dead). This is a substantial increase over the 'normal' rate of mass shootings, and if it continues at this rate, will be the most for decades. The obvious reason for this is the loosening of gun controls by the Trump administration. In very short order, his lawmakers have made it much easier for people with mental illnesses to buy guns.

In addition, suicides by gun are up. Empirical evidence shows that most suicides are impulsive, with usually less than 10 minutes spent contemplating before acting. If no ready means of suicide is available in that time, the suicide does not happen. But ready availability of guns makes that chance disappear. If guns are not available, other methods are seriously less likely to end in death. Gun suicide 'succeeds' about 90% of the time, whereas pill overdose kills only 2% of the time. Suicides are rising in the USA, with a 24% increase from 1999 to 2014, and half of all suicides are by gun.

In addition, this year has seen a spike in accidental deaths by gunshot. Especially true for 3 year olds, who typically shoot themselves playing with guns they find lying around at home.

The National Rifle Association is the enemy of rational thinking in this arena. In the year 2000, the gun makers, Smith and Wesson tried to work with the Clinto administration to improve gun safety by adding locks and restricting magazine size. The response of the NRA was to institute a boycott on Smith and Wesson which nearly drove them out of business.

In 1996, a law was passed which prevents the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention from using research funding to advocate gun control. In effect, this prevents them from doing research into the impact of gun ownership. How can the USA have rational laws to reduce deaths and disabilities if there is no solid science based data to base those laws upon?

---

I stand corrected.

Also, just wanted to say how much fun I'd think it to be to fire off a few hundred with Ma Deuce.

How about 1,500 rounds a minute, and 192 POUNDS of lead in the air in sixty seconds. 

Yeah, the barrels wouldn't like that, but that's why are made to be changed. 

Before anybody asks, I have that particular piece because the serial number shows that it entered service with the USN sometime in 1969. "Could be an old friend."

[Thumpalumpacus]

How about 1,500 rounds a minute, and 192 POUNDS of lead in the air in sixty seconds. 

Yeah, the barrels wouldn't like that, but that's why are made to be changed. 

Before anybody asks, I have that particular piece because the serial number shows that it entered service with the USN sometime in 1969. "Could be an old friend."

My dad, former Army, hung onto a .50cal cartridge after his discharge. As a boy, I'd heft it sometimes, and then think of a P-47 spitting 4800 of 'em a minute.

I was obviously pretty quiet. That's a lot of goddamned lead.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

How about 1,500 rounds a minute, and 192 POUNDS of lead in the air in sixty seconds. 

Yeah, the barrels wouldn't like that, but that's why are made to be changed. 

Before anybody asks, I have that particular piece because the serial number shows that it entered service with the USN sometime in 1969. "Could be an old friend."

My dad, former Army, hung onto a .50cal cartridge after his discharge. As a boy, I'd heft it sometimes, and then think of a P-47 spitting 4800 of 'em a minute.

I was obviously pretty quiet. That's a lot of goddamned lead.

I named mine "Mercy" and "Justice." 

Mercy was a mean bitch.

[Jeanne]

Brian, the reason for the Second Amendment was covered early in this topic. You are uninformed or choose to remain ignorant as to its true purpose. You have not paid attention to the history of the world, either recent or centuries past.

Obama had tyrannical capabilities and acted upon them and Trump looks to be the same. They have been offered that capability by lax SCOTUS rulings and by Establishment delight to rule by regulation. The pendulum swings back with force when it has been pushed hard in the other direction.

I know it is much easier to believe in a utopia brought about by those who say they are looking out for us and know what is best to meet our needs. It is also very easy to believe that nothing is changing and life as we have come to know it in the US will just go on without the necessity of action from us; the trash will get picked up, school buses will pick up the kids, the check will come in the mail, electricity will always be available, toilets will flush and the benign hand of the federal government will take care of all the bad things that threaten us....all we have to do is vote for the "right" people.

You go ahead, sweetie. You can cite all the people you want to bolster your beliefs if it helps you.

You are wrong. The slope continues slippery and has rapidly "progressed" during the 20th Century, but became even more treacherous during this century during the Bush and Obama administrations. Progressives are patient Communists, even if they aren't aware that what they are doing helps to usher in Communism. What is coming is anybody's guess, as Trump seems to be our most unprecedented leader, yet.

I truly hope there never comes a time when you will be grateful that some of us take our rights and responsibilities seriously. Of course, it is entirely possible that failing will just allow this "Grand Experiment" to slip forever into oblivion and most will never know what has been lost. Still...there are many in foreign nations who hope the US can stand strong and remain a beacon of liberty to those who seek it.

It is all bound together in our Declaration of Independence and Constitution and Bill of Rights. As They keep trying to unravel it, they know exactly what They are doing.

I am going to stop writing on this topic.

-Jeanne

[Brian37]

Brian, the reason for the Second Amendment was covered early in this topic.  You are uninformed or choose to remain ignorant as to its true purpose. You have not paid attention to the history of the world, either recent or centuries past.  

Obama had tyrannical capabilities and acted upon them and Trump looks to be the same.  They have been offered that capability by lax SCOTUS rulings and by Establishment delight to rule by regulation.  The pendulum swings back with force when it has been pushed hard in the other direction.

I know it is much easier to believe in a utopia brought about by those who say they are looking out for us and know what is best to meet our needs.  It is also very easy to believe that nothing is changing and life as we have come to know it in the US will just go on without the necessity of action from us; the trash will get picked up, school buses will pick up the kids, the check will come in the mail, electricity will always be available, toilets will flush and the benign hand of the federal government will take care of all the bad things that threaten us....all we have to do is vote for the "right" people.

You go ahead, sweetie.  You can cite all the people you want to bolster your beliefs if it helps you.

You are wrong.  The slope continues slippery and has rapidly "progressed" during the 20th Century, but became even more treacherous during this century during the Bush and Obama administrations.  Progressives are patient Communists, even if they aren't aware that what they are doing helps to usher in Communism.  What is coming is anybody's guess, as Trump seems to be our most unprecedented leader, yet.  

I truly hope there never comes a time when you will be grateful that some of us take our rights and responsibilities seriously.   Of course, it is entirely possible that failing will just allow this "Grand Experiment" to slip forever into oblivion and most will never know what has been lost.  Still...there are many in foreign nations who hope the US can stand strong and remain a beacon of liberty to those who seek it.

It is all bound together in our Declaration of Independence and Constitution and Bill of Rights.  As They keep trying to unravel it, they know exactly what They are doing.

I am going to stop writing on this topic.

-Jeanne

Knock it off, you sound like a theist arguing a holy book, "what would you know".

I do know that the First Amendment is an anti trust anti monopoly concept. IT MEANS NOBODY not one religion, not one political party not one class has the absolute right to dictate laws on everyone else. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE VOTING, don't like it, TOUGH SHIT.

Now, if you want to scream about government tyranny go look up the Whiskey Rebellion. OUR GOVERNMENT almost sent GOVERNMENT after their version of Cliven Bundy fuckface nuts who cried about taxes, the pussies backed off when OUR government made those threats.

Trump scares the crap out of me right now, so again, if it is about government tyranny can I take up arms against him? Funny thing is, even with that fear, considering the stupid shit he just did, and that the "die quickly" bill the GOP is trying to pass only has a 21% approval rating, unlike you, I think our system CAN WORK. I have more confidence than you do.

Better call Washington a tyrant too by your logic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion