are you left,right or centre?

[leo-rcc]

My idea of socialism is like the Dutch model, the more money you make, the more taxes you pay, so the ones less fortunate have a less heavy burden on their income to have a minimal but acceptable standard of living. I make a very decent income, of that over half goes to various taxes and social securities. I also lived in Guernsey for 6 months where it was 8% income tax all over the board, regardless of income. It also means there is no safety net in place should something happen to you or others.

[WWLD]

im a lefty

but i dont like barack obama

[Eilonnwy]

CR/Adrian, the 2 concepts are diametrically opposed. You cannot support capitalism and have socialist tendencies....they will end up as watered down capitalism.
I don't think delude is too strong a word for your positions.

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See that's like saying if you have a black parent you can't be white because once your black, you're black. And I don't think that's necessarily true.

Yes, the two positions are very opposed and I see that. But there are shades of grey. You're setting up a false dichotomy by insisting we must be one or the other and not allowing for tendencies.

[bozo]

CR/Adrian, the 2 concepts are diametrically opposed. You cannot support capitalism and have socialist tendencies....they will end up as watered down capitalism.
I don't think delude is too strong a word for your positions.

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See that's like saying if you have a black parent you can't be white because once your black, you're black. And I don't think that's necessarily true.

Yes, the two positions are very opposed and I see that. But there are shades of grey. You're setting up a false dichotomy by insisting we must be one or the other and not allowing for tendencies.

I don't think your analogy regarding blackness/whiteness is appropriate to what we are discussing, isn't that about biology over time?
I cannot stop people having their tendencies but the two systems are quite different. Capitalism is about a system of competition, whereas socialism is about cooperation. Competition breeds losers and winners.....many more losers!!!
Cooperation seeks to ensure no losers.
My hangup is people expressing their leftness because maybe they feel they should, rather than truly subscribing.

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im a lefty

but i dont like barack obama

why?

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I see Marxist as communist, and socialist as somewhere/anywhere between total laissez faire capitalism and communism. So, by saying I am socialist but not Marxist, I'm being redundant. Communism is left of me. It is the far end of the spectrum.

I don't think there is a single "capitalist" or "communist" government in existence. They are all just varying degrees of socialism.

I say I'm radical because I like the idea of state and private interests in competition. That idea is basically anathema to most everyone who advocates for socialism, communism, or capitalism. And I think it is left of any government in existence. I advocate, potentially, for the state to provide EVERY good and service, like communism, but with private competition being permitted to exist alongside.

Your claim in your second para. is somewhat staggering! Are you sure you mean what you say and not that most governments are just varying degrees of CAPITALISM?

[Eilonnwy]

The comparison that I was making was that you seem to say if you hold any capitalist ideals you're a capitalist and not possibly a socialist in any way. Just like you can be a capitalist with socialist ideals, you can be a black person with very white/caucasian features. It's not clearly one or the other, is all I was getting at.

For example. I support universal health care. That is an ideal based on the idea of coorporation with our government and medical system so that everyone gets medical services for cheap. So in essence allowing people to get good health insurance and have the government use taxes to pay for most of it. However, let's look at auto insurance. I live in Massachusetts and until recently auto insurance companies weren't allowed to compete, it was regulated by the state in an effort to protect people from paying too much, but it didn't work. Good drivers in Massachusetts were paying almost just as much as bad drivers and it was a lot more in comparison to other states where the companies could compete. A ballot initiative was passed that allowed cauto insurance companies to compete and nopw good drivers can take advantage of the better prices.

[Tiberius]

Merging parts of two political systems has been the way of things for years. For instance, I think capitalism is a good economic system (at least in comparison to others) but I'm also an egalitarian and believe that people ought to be treated the same regardless of their wealth.

[bozo]

The comparison that I was making was that you seem to say if you hold any capitalist ideals you're a capitalist and not possibly a socialist in any way. Just like you can be a capitalist with socialist ideals, you can be a black person with very white/caucasian features. It's not clearly one or the other, is all I was getting at.

For example. I support universal health care. That is an ideal based on the idea of coorporation with our government and medical system so that everyone gets medical services for cheap. So in essence allowing people to get good health insurance and have the government use taxes to pay for most of it. However, let's look at auto insurance. I live in Massachusetts and until recently auto insurance companies weren't allowed to compete, it was regulated by the state in an effort to protect people from paying too much, but it didn't work. Good drivers in Massachusetts were paying almost just as much as bad drivers and it was a lot more in comparison to other states where the companies could compete. A ballot initiative was passed that allowed cauto insurance companies to compete and nopw good drivers can take advantage of the better prices.

Sorry E but your logic loses me. If you have " socialist ideals " then you are socialist. What you are saying may be that we have to live with capitalism ( although we don't really want it? ). That I understand.

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Merging parts of two political systems has been the way of things for years. For instance, I think capitalism is a good economic system (at least in comparison to others) but I'm also an egalitarian and believe that people ought to be treated the same regardless of their wealth.

Sorry A but I don't think capitalism is good at economics. It certainly isn't fair....loook to the third world for proof of what global capitalism delivers.
And, of course, wealth does ensure the haves and have-
nots of our society, with huge implications.

[Giff]

I don´t like conservaties, don´t like to much capitalism. But I don´t like too much of the left sides idea either. But I like the socialist thoughts of helping eachother as a community. I have grew tired of the poliitcs in my countyr, will not vote on any parity. They are all the same, just talking not doing anything special.

But I am more intrested when it comes to political things that i dont like, which are: Nazism, Facsim, Racism, war, discrimination and so on. Plus I dont like feminists, specially when a man claim that he is a feminist. A man cant be a feminist, but he can be someone who wants to create a equal society for everyone. He could call him self a "equalist" or something other ending with a "ist"

I also dont like, not suprislngly, religious fundamentalist who try to force their ideas on others. Luckily do I live in europe where such things are very uncommon.

[Tiberius]

Criticism accepted bozo, but I'm afraid I don't see any other system that (a) works, and (b) is better than capitalism. If you can suggest a better system and an example of it working I would be happy to look into it more.

[bozo]

Criticism accepted bozo, but I'm afraid I don't see any other system that (a) works, and (b) is better than capitalism. If you can suggest a better system and an example of it working I would be happy to look into it more.

The point is to keep pressing for change. As surely as christianity will eventually expire, so will capitalism. As the final crisis of capitalism approaches, the world will get really ugly, far worse than it is today.
What follows capitalism will determine humankind's future. I heard it expressed as being that after capitalism, we will have either barbarism or socialism.
As regards to a working example of socialism here and now, the best on offer would be Cuba.