The Case Against Compatabilism

[Edwardo Piet]

What do you mean by share process?

Do you mean I think out loud?

Yeah totally. And I'm exactly like this in RL too. Ask pocaracas for confirmation

[Succubus]

Two metaphysical libertarians, a hard incompatabilist and a bowl of petunias walk into a bar, and the barman says; err... I'll get back later.

Sorry but this: "err... I'll get back later.". Was 'me'. I couldn't remember the rest of the joke. Sorry if I caused confusion

[Neo-Scholastic]

Personally, I think the distinction between compatibalism and determinism is largely a distinction without a difference. In neither case, can anyone alter the trajectory of efficient causes and both presuppose physical causal closure.

Compatabilism and determinism are certainly not the same thing....

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Compatabilism is the belief that determinism is compatible with free will. Incompatabilism is the belief that determinism is not compatabile with free will.

A compatabilist may or may not believe the universe is deterministic... but either way they believe that if the universe is deterministic that doesn't rule out free will.

An incompatabilist may or may not believe the universe is deterministic... but either way they believe that if the universe is deterministic then that does rule out free will.

A hard incompatabilist believes that free will is impossible with or without determinism.

A  libertarian incompatabilist believes that free will is possible but only without determinism.

A soft determinist is a compatabilist who believes the universe is deterministic.

A hard determinist is someone who believes the universe is determined and there is no free will. They may or may not believe free will is possible if the universe is indeterministic. Meaning that if they instead believed the universe was indeterministic then they may take up either the libertarian incompatabilist position and believe in free will or the hard incompatabilist position. Because it's possible to both be a hard incompatabilist and a hard determinist. I myself am one. I believe the universe is determined and it is not compatabile with free will. So I am not a soft determinist or compatabilist. But I am also a hard incompatabilist because I believe even if the universe were indeterministic that still wouldn't get you free will. I wouldn't suddenly start believing in free will. I wouldn't become a libertarian incompatabilist.

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So there are three separate questions. There is the question "Is free will possible?" there's the question "If free will is possible is it possible in a deterministic universe?" and there's the question "Do you believe in a deterministic universe?".

Yes you've staked out the various positions nicely as far as what people believe. What people believe doesn't mean their positions are coherent. The problem is that they don't agree on the definition of free will. There's no difference between being compelled to choose a certain way and being compelled to act a certain way.

[Edwardo Piet]

Of course there is. If the 'choice' you 'make' is ultimately forced by someone or something else... then that's different to you not being ultimately forced by someone or something else.