Consciousness Trilemma

[The Grand Nudger]

[Edwardo Piet]

[Neo-Scholastic]

Why can it not be both? Is it not important for making good decisions to know what is true? If our concepts about what it means to be human are false then our choices will reflect that. To know what is best for humanity it helps to understand what it means to be human. The way I see it, if the consequences of an idea undermine human dignity then a little extra scrutiny seems wise. If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence then that would include claims that come at great cost like denying many of those things that make life worth living such as values, meaning, autonomy, and personal identity.

My         ->        Point
           Your
           head

Just a little condescending don't you think?

[Edwardo Piet]

Well, the point going over your head may or may not have social utility... but it still went over your head nonetheless.

[Whateverist]

My         ->        Point
           Your
           head

Just a little condescending don't you think?

Well if my point didn't entirely escape you I'd never know it by your response. That's why I thought it best to get my pompous ass game on, level 3.

[The Grand Nudger]

Ham, your criticism arises from a common and commonly rebutted misunderstanding of eliminative materialism. I appreciate that you think the subject ha been changed..but ofc it has, since "the subject" to which you're referring is folklore and the philosophy surrounding folklore...which isn't, at all, what dennet is trying to explain.

[Edwardo Piet]

But the fact he thinks qualia is an illusion just demonstrates that he is talking nonsense.

He does the same with free will. He thinks he's purifying a subject by not using an old folk lore definition. But the correct response is to tell someone how their understanding is wrong.... not to redefine matters altogether.

It's literally impossible to be wrong about the fact one has qualia and phenomenology.

Watch this. Galen Strawson explains clearly and plainly how Dennett is talking nonsense (he also quotes Dennett too and explains how nonsensical it is).



If you think consciousness is an illusion you may as well think circles have 4 sides.

It's the most certainly known fact in the universe. Beyond any science. The fact that oneself is conscious is the only thing you can know 100% to a guarantee outside tautologies.

[The Grand Nudger]

But the fact he thinks qualia is an illusion just demonstrates that he is talking nonsense.

Or, that you're thick.  

Watch this. Galen Strawson explains clearly and plainly how Dennett is talking nonsense.

Except that he doesn't.  He keeps conflating the term illusory with non-existent, and the non-existence of one object:the folkloric qualia, with the non-existence of another:whatever qualia actually is.  This is the same mistake preempted by dennet, and discussed more than once in thi thread.  

He demonstrates, by plainly saying..that he has no clue why anyone would advance these positions..he reckons it's because they;re incompatible with physics........parse that, he think nuerologists are chiefly concerned with physics.  He goes on to say that he doesn't care what story "they" tell about the brain.

I'm sure he's a smart guy, but, like any other guy..when asked for a comment out of his area of expertise, he stumbles.  

I'll explain, for you and for Strawson(lol)...one more time.  To say that some aspect of qualia is illusory, is to say little more than that some aspect of a stage illusion....is a stage illusion.  That it is a misapprehension.  To say that the singular sense of self is not representative of any actual singular self, that it does not exist, is not to say that there is no system to which the term self refers.

(as regards free will, dennets on the record stating his opposition to epiphenomenalism, since he's not an epiphenomenalist, he thinks that mental events can be causal. This is his version of free will)

[Neo-Scholastic]

Just a little condescending don't you think?

Well if my point didn't entirely escape you I'd never know it by your response.  That's why I thought it best to get my pompous ass game on, level 3.

I'll just plead ignorance on this one. Whatever it was, it was apparently just to clever for subtle for me at the moment. Work is so stressful right now I put my xanax in a Pez dispenser.

[Edwardo Piet]

Or, that you're thick.  

No that most definitely would be you.