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"Cultural Appropriation"
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
With no cultural appropriation you would not know of Chuck Norris, Stevie Segal or Jean Claude. 



I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 8, 2017 at 7:43 am)Crunchy Wrote:
Quote:Khemikal Wrote:
It's not a newly minted phrase 

So you think it's an ancient expression? Lol that's funny.
You called it a newly minted term to excuse your ignorance.  I informed you that this was not the case.  Are you now bitching that, unless it's written on a cave wall........you;re still right?  Honestly, what's the terminus of this argument....to demonstrate that you are unaware of the meaning of a term?  Because that's how this ends.

Quote:That's what this discussion is all about. You have to prove things you know. 
You have the internet.  Let wonder lead you to knowledge.  You can't have googled it, for example...and still maintain your many hilarious positions on the issue.  


Quote:That is exactly what you meant. You've created a difference between cultural exchange and cultural appropriation based who is doing it, and not based on what is being done. You're a racist and a bigot but just don't realize it.
I didn't create the difference, numbskull..the people who engaged in cultural appropriation did. I find it ironic that a person who is currently insisting that there either -was- no appropriation, or that it's no different from exchange, feels that they can defend themselves and their position by calling someone else a racist......talk about tone deaf.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
Quote:Khemikal Wrote:
You called it a newly minted term to excuse your ignorance.  I informed you that this was not the case.  Are you now bitching that, unless it's written on a cave wall........you;re still right?  Honestly, what's the terminus of this argument....to demonstrate that you are unaware of the meaning of a term?  Because that's how this ends.

Each word is old, but the concept as a negative is a new idea. That's why it's become such a flash point of discussion as of late. 


Quote:You have the internet.  Let wonder lead you to knowledge.  You can't have googled it, for example...and still maintain your many hilarious positions on the issue. 

As do you. Google it yourself and you will see many different opinions on this subject. You're arrogant condescension carries no weight and never has.


Quote:I didn't create the difference, numbskull..the people who engaged in cultural appropriation did.


Since the entire point of this thread is the meaning of the term... then yes, you did create the difference and you did it using your racist ideology.

Quote:I foind it ironic that a person who is currently insisting that there either -was- no appropriuation, or that it;s no different from exchange, feels that they can defend themselves and their position by calling some else a racist......talk about tone deaf.

So once again you frame disagreement with yourself as an example of racism. Can you be an atheist if you think you're god?
I've given examples and describe why I see no difference. You've vomited out an opinion with nothing to back it up other than an arrogant belief that everyone is a bigot except you. And I find this amusing as you are one of the most bigoted people who post at this site.
If god was real he wouldn't need middle men to explain his wants or do his bidding.
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 8, 2017 at 8:09 am)Crunchy Wrote:
Quote:Khemikal Wrote:
You called it a newly minted term to excuse your ignorance.  I informed you that this was not the case.  Are you now bitching that, unless it's written on a cave wall........you;re still right?  Honestly, what's the terminus of this argument....to demonstrate that you are unaware of the meaning of a term?  Because that's how this ends.

Each word is old, but the concept as a negative is a new idea. That's why it's become such a flash point of discussion as of late. 
The act is as old as the examples which demonstrate it's existence.  The discussion of the concept, in earnest, is decades old.  You seem to think some shit for brains "sjw" came up with it last wednesday to smear decent not-racists™ like yourself.   

You have a higher threshold for relative newness than I do.  

Quote:As do you. Google it yourself and you will see many different opinions on this subject. You're arrogant condescension carries no weight and never has.
What I won't see, is no definition, or many disparate definitions.  By all means, share your opinions - but lets not use your opinions or the opinions of other to deflect from the silly nonsense that you saw fit to saddle yourself with thusfar. There uis much disagreement as to what specific example -is- or -was- cultural appropriation, but no coherent way to insist that there is no such thing, and no difference..for example, between cultural appropriation and learning a new language.

Quote:Since the entire point of this thread is the meaning of the term... then yes, you did create the difference and you did it using your racist ideology.
......lol?  My racist ideology that dominant cultures have, in a distinctly colonial relationship, exploited their minority wards?  


Quote:So once again you frame disagreement with yourself as an example of racism. Can you be an atheist if you think you're god?
I've given examples and describe why I see no difference. You've vomited out an opinion with nothing to back it up other than an arrogant belief that everyone is a bigot except you. And I find this amusing as you are one of the most bigoted people who post at this site.
I didn't frame it as racism, I explicitly called it tone deafness.  

What makes cultural appropriation particularly onerous..is the refusal to acknowledge the creator culture in the first place. To assure ourselves, over and over "It wasn't like that, it didn't happen, is it really bad anyway?"

Yes, it was, yes, it did...and yes..it's really that bad - but it doesn;t have to fucking be...just a little acknowledgement would go a long way. Too much to ask, huh? Too much to ask because it has you a-feared that any such acknowledgement would make you a bigot...like it's..apparently, made me a bigot......in your not-bigoted™ opinion.

Honestly, what the fuck?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
I have to say that in watching how this thread has unfolded, Tizheruk has shown why he/she has a vested interest in this issue, and explained cogently and repeatedly (and with great restraint overall) why. I get a sense of a couple people working up near-SJW-level militancy and vehemence against him, which is ironic, as I expected him to go on a full warpath (haha I had to, sorry!) while I stood there working up my own indignation.

My question about the dream catchers would be this: do I care enough about a dream catcher to make a stand on my right to own one, or the lack of right of a native person to ask me not to use it because it's sacred? The answer is: no. I think it's a neat doo-dad, and I like neat doo-dads, but if someone has respectfully explained to me why he doesn't think I should buy and display it, I have no good reason to fight about it-- I'd rather exchange that tiny part of my liberty for a greater value in good will, and maybe make a friend who could actually teach me something real about the culture instead.

As for the douchebags that are totally unreasonable-- like that black bitch trying to claim dreadlocks for all black "culture" and telling a white guy he shouldn't wear them-- the lack of respect I feel for them is if possible even greater now, because by their fucking douchery, they are throwing a smoke screen up over issues where cultural appropriation actually matters.
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
Nothing stops a person from claiming cultural appropriation being wrong.  The dreadlocks bit..wrong.  The christers and their war on christmas stuff, wrong.  Tiz, regarding dreamcatchers....wrong.

It;s related to the whole sorry affair of our history with natives, sure.  It may be offensive to natives, sure.  It just doesn;t fit the definition of appropriation.  Mostly, in that no attempt has been made, in dreamcatchers, to minimize the host culture.  It's exactly the opposite.  Cultural fetishism.  People have gone apeshit over them specifically for their connection and connotation to the host culture...and a decidely unrealistic and positive view -of- that native culture has emerged in recent years - that;s why there's a market for them.  Plus, ofc, they're pretty....and as much as we like to imagine muricans to be god fearin folk..they do love their pseudo magical pagan trinkets, and always have.

(take notes not-bigots™ - that's how you respond to a shoddy charge of appropriation...-not- by denying that it happens.............. Dodgy  )
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 8, 2017 at 8:33 am)bennyboy Wrote: I have to say that in watching how this thread has unfolded, Tizheruk has shown why he/she has a vested interest in this issue, and explained cogently and repeatedly (and with great restraint overall) why.  I get a sense of a couple people working up near-SJW-level militancy and vehemence against him, which is ironic, as I expected him to go on a full warpath (haha I had to, sorry!) while I stood there working up my own indignation.

My question about the dream catchers would be this: do I care enough about a dream catcher to make a stand on my right to own one, or the lack of right of a native person to ask me not to use it because it's sacred?  The answer is: no.  I think it's a neat doo-dad, and I like neat doo-dads, but if someone has respectfully explained to me why he doesn't think I should buy and display it, I have no good reason to fight about it-- I'd rather exchange that tiny part of my liberty for a greater value in good will, and maybe make a friend who could actually teach me something real about the culture instead.

As for the douchebags that are totally unreasonable-- like that black bitch trying to claim dreadlocks for all black "culture" and telling a white guy he shouldn't wear them-- the lack of respect I feel for them is if possible even greater now, because by their fucking douchery, they are throwing a smoke screen up over issues where cultural appropriation actually matters.

This is insightful

Thank you for sharing Smile
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
Quote:Khemikal Wrote:
The act is as old as the examples which demonstrate it's existence.  The discussion of the concept, in earnest, is decades old.  You seem to think some shit for brains "sjw" came up with it last wednesday to smear decent not-racists™ like yourself.   

You have a higher threshold for relative newness than I do.  

LOL Decades in language is new to most everyone. It's like "reverse racism" both old words but used in a new way. An incorrect way IMO as racism is racism to me. But of course if you disagree with me, I must be racist correct?


Quote:What I won't see, is no definition, or many disparate definitions. 

Then your either not looking or only going to your echo chamber for support.
One example of many: http://thoughtcatalog.com/steve-patterso...ood-thing/


Quote:What makes cultural appropriation particularly onerous..is the refusal to acknowledge the creator culture in the first place. To assure ourselves, over and over "It wasn't like that, it didn't happen, is it really bad anyway?" 

Well that depends on what you think cultural appropriation actually is doesn't it. If it is just people using those ideas around them that they see value in and "appropriate it", it doesn't matter that you have injected the non sequitur "refusal to acknowledge the creator culture" into the definition willy nilly. "refusal to acknowledge the creator culture" is not a part of cultural appropriation just because you want to believe it is and insist that disagreement is proof of racism. 

Quote:Honestly, what the fuck?

The fuck is that you have made yourself useless in this and most discussions with your condescending shit talk. It's impossible to have a meaningful dialogue when one person is an arrogant douchebag ready to drop labels and insults at the mere thought of disagreement. Yes, I disagree with you about what cultural appropriation means and it's consequences. With a normal person we could actually have a discussion. With you it's impossible because your bigotry won't allow it.



Quote:big·ot·ry

ˈbiɡətrē/Submit
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Now that is an actual dictionary definition and it fits you like a glove.
If god was real he wouldn't need middle men to explain his wants or do his bidding.
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 8, 2017 at 9:34 am)Crunchy Wrote: LOL Decades in language is new to most everyone. It's like "reverse racism" both old words but used in a new way. An incorrect way IMO as racism is racism to me. But of course if you disagree with me, I must be racist correct?
Oh come now, you're not a racist for anything up here, you're just wrong and unable to let go of it.  

Quote:Then your either not looking or only going to your echo chamber for support.
One example of many: http://thoughtcatalog.com/steve-patterson/2015/11/why-cultural-appropriation-is-actually-a-good-thing/
Why you think that link responds to or contradicts anything I said is beyond me.  It is a person writing an opinion piece on why cultural appropriation is a good thing™...it's not a refutation of the existence of cultural appropriation..nor is it a redefinition of cultural appropriation................... So, uh, quick q...what do -you- think about that authors position? Broad agreement?

Quote:Well that depends on what you think cultural appropriation actually is doesn't it. If it is just people using those ideas around them that they see value in and "appropriate it", it doesn't matter that you have injected the non sequitur "refusal to acknowledge the creator culture" into the definition willy nilly. "refusal to acknowledge the creator culture" is not a part of cultural appropriation just because you want to believe it is and insist that disagreement is proof of racism. 
I'm satisfied with the definition of cultural appropriation.  Refusal of acknowledgement is explicitly laid out in that definition...... it's part of minimizing or scrubbing the host cultures contribution.  The very reason why some consider it to be a violation of cultural IP.

Quote:The fuck is that you have made yourself useless in this and most discussions with your condescending shit talk. It's impossible to have a meaningful dialogue when one person is an arrogant douchebag ready to drop labels and insults at the mere thought of disagreement. Yes, I disagree with you about what cultural appropriation means and it's consequences. With a normal person we could actually have a discussion. With you it's impossible because your bigotry won't allow it.
I think that you're mistaken as to why it;s impossible for  -you- to have a meaningful dialogue with me.  Plenty of other people aren't having that problem - and I get a whole lot meaner than I've ever been with you, lol.  The only common factor in all of your own failures, is yourself.  

Quote:Now that is an actual dictionary definition and it fits you like a glove.
Yeah, I know..I know, I'm bigoted against bigots.  Been down that road long before any particular bigot came along to peddle it on these boards.  I'll take it...you know why?  Because unlike the majority of actual bigots, I have no need to conceal or deny my own opinion..of them, and their opinions.

Do you have anything coherent to add to the discussion of cultural appropriation, or will this be an endless list of the ways that you feel personally slighted by me, a terrible bad bigoted person?  

Alt right sjws for the lose.  Rolleyes
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 8, 2017 at 3:55 am)Tizheruk Wrote:
(June 8, 2017 at 3:39 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: None of those are examples of cultural appropriation. Those are examples of disrespect.

Don't conflate the two.

Is English your native tongue? If it isn't, how are you not appropriating, yourself?

 That's just my point a dream catcher in my culture is not just art it's a sacred ceremonial object . And using it as a wall decoration is as awful and disrespectful to it's role in my culture as the above .

I have no problem with some one speaking my language. (my non native relatives do) That's not the same as a dream catcher or a grave marker or defiling a wedding oath . Just as buying a leather jacket or a pair  moccasins is not the same .

Sacred, schmacred. The idea that how someone else uses something you consider sacred can be offensive is silly ... but I've heard of it before. Where? Oh yeah, when Muslims get pissy at people drawing cartoons of Muhammed, and sore about the Koran being defaced. If you want to think of something as sacred, you go right ahead and please your little head. You do not[/] have the right to tell [i]anyone else what is sacred.

If you want to be offended because someone else you've never met uses a dream-catcher differently than you, for decoration instead of ceremony, have at it. But at that point it's you choosing to take offense.

(June 8, 2017 at 3:55 am)Tizheruk Wrote: Let me give a real life example . I was dating a Chinese girl . And i brought here to my apartment (i was staying in Shanghai) and I was going to show her a neat object id bought in a market . So i brought her to apartment . and showed her the object a pair of pretty tiny shoes i had bought . upon looking at them she burst into tears . I asked her why . She promptly told me id bought a pair of lotus shoes . I asked her what was wrong with that. She then informed me of there significance as part of a disturbing custom called foot binding . I asked why this bothered her personally . She told me her grandmother(who she was very close with) had undergone foot binding it had messed up her legs and spine resulting in a slow painful death. So i got rid of them . These were not decorations and I refused to treat them as such . I instead bought a wall scroll of a tree one intended as a decoration .

What does that have to do with cultural appropriation? That was you trying to give a thoughtful gift and making a faux pas of it by not knowing that she had hurtful memories tied up with the object.

Cultural appropriation would be you wearing those shoes and claiming that you understood Chinese culture better for it.

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