Bill Maher 6/9/17

[vorlon13]

I don't understand the obsession of whites to want to openly use that word. It was a word used by slave masters to refer to black slaves.
Why would you want to use it?

I mean, there are certain subtexts, right? When you call someone an asshole the subtext is "Your actions were shitty therefore you're an ass". When you use the N word, it's a reminder to everyone that just heard you use it that whites used to be the slave masters of blacks. Do you think any sane black person would want to be reminded that because his forefathers were born with black skin they were destined to be used as slaves for the purpose of white people? That's a clear disrespect to them and their forefathers. Times have changed. You just can't use the word, yeah, tough shit, deal with it.

for me it only comes up (and very rarely, BTW, I'd like all to understand) in a sexual situation

I recall vividly my first time encounter with a black man, (and Lordy Lordy, he was as near as I can recall in my first 10), in 1975 (!!) and a very good time was had by all.  A grad student and a freshman in college having an autumn tryst.  I don't think that encounter was particularly 'racial' for either of us, I think the key descriptive word would be:

HORNY, and not much else mattered beyond who got fucked first.  And the 'N' word (stupidest eupimism ever, BTW) didn't come up that occasion.

I don't know if that was my first taste (heh heh) of a post racial America or not (not even sure to this day what that even means) but there were no 'repercussions'.  IOWs, I was not beset with guilt for polluting someone with homo-sex outside of my race (sheesh!), and none of my other gay friends acted as though I had 'lost caste' somehow.  This Maher/Dr. Laura brouhaha is both funny and stupid from my perspective.  More people need to get laid outside of their 'label' comfort zone.


Biggest regret to this day is I don't have a video of the encounter . . . . .

[Brian37]

I don't understand the obsession of whites to want to openly use that word. It was a word used by slave masters to refer to black slaves.
Why would you want to use it?

I mean, there are certain subtexts, right? When you call someone an asshole the subtext is "Your actions were shitty therefore you're an ass". When you use the N word, it's a reminder to everyone that just heard you use it that whites used to be the slave masters of blacks. Do you think any sane black person would want to be reminded that because his forefathers were born with black skin they were destined to be used as slaves for the purpose of white people? That's a clear disrespect to them and their forefathers. Times have changed. You just can't use the word, yeah, tough shit, deal with it.

Who is obsessed? The bigots like the sickos who belong to the KKK, sure, but what the fuck does that have to do do with Bill Maher's use of it. I don't think he is "obsessed" with using it, I don't hear stories of him using it every single day which he does not. He made a very bad joke and even I said he should apologize for it and he did.

I think you should worry about bigots, not him, bigots never apologize.

Nobody is condoning slavery nor was Bill in the context of that moment. Seriously if you are going to convince whites not to use it then to be consistent blacks shouldn't use it either. I don't make that argument because I am not black. 

I am not going to bow to any type of puritan. With any word it always depends on time place and context of use. I don't use the word myself, but I have absolutely no right to tell blacks never to use it. And I am certainly not going to punish anyone using it in the context of teaching history, nor in all cases of music or satire. 

Demanding the word "nigger" never be used would be like demanding the Holocaust Museum remove every use of the word "Juden" which was a German slur to Germans whom aimed it at German and European Jews. And if you are going to insist pejoratives also never be used as endearment or satire when not done out of hate then you better condemn Mel Brooks because he made a living making comedy movies full of stereotypes and even sometimes pejoratives.

We all know the dark side of that word and we all agree it should NEVER be used to sell or spread hate, but just like any other word, even in a thread like this,  there are times when it has to be used, even if to merely discuss it's usage.

[bennyboy]

I don't see why the fuck he should get a pass for his bullshit.  If it were the same context said by someone like Sean Hannity or Alex Jones, they wouldn't get a fucking pass.  So neither should Bill Maher.

Sean Hannity and Alex Jones aren't known as comedians (it was an obvious mis-timed Joke on Maher's part).  They also haven't spent a lifetime speaking up on behalf of black people's rights.

That they would make him eat such a shit sandwich seems a bit cowardly, tbh.

[Anon2381]

Kind of like the way people on this forum bandy around the word "retard" i.e. creatard, etc. For those of us, like me who work with the mentally challenged, we find it hurtful and stigmatizing. At the same time we teach our members that it says more about the name-callers, their lack of class and ignorance and nothing about the mentally challenged. They won't let other people take away their dignity as human beings. In that way they are stronger than more noble than anyone using the word retard or derivatives like creatard.

Yea but there is a limit to taking things out of context. Nobody sane when using that is equating that to the mentally challenged. It is merely a blunt way of saying your logic sucks, so it isn't remotely the same context.

If you are trying to justify a old fantastic claim out of an old writing that has no basis in scientific fact I see calling that "retarded" as being no different than saying "That's bullshit".

And yea, if you think the earth was created in 6 literal days and or think the earth is only 6 to 10,000 years old, then yea, you are a creatard. If you instead claim the universe was farted into existence by a giant invisible unicorn, I'd call you a unitard.

But no, sorry, that isn't the same one bit as poking fun of the mentally challenged. Everyone agrees nobody should do that. 

I am a liberal, but even I think PC goes too far. And my fear is that my well intended fellow liberals are going to put the far right bigots in a position of using the "never say ever" position against us.

---

I think devaluing the comment and its maker is a great way to educate people about the stupidity of cruel and hurtful words. So many offensive things are said daily and responding to dumbass gives them more power. I love your perspective your teaching.

I love this intent, but we don't live in a utopia and if everyone got to dictate to others about what can or cannot be said by law, there is not one person reading this that could not think of something they'd rather not hear. The problem with "never offend" is that is always point of view and subjective. You cant have blanket solutions to solve that problem because then it becomes "who gets to decide"? 

Some theists find the mere word "atheist" offensive, and would consider the existence of this website offensive or the existence of ANY atheist website offensive. Do you really want those people to to decide for you in that case? Could you imagine what a government full of nothing but Pat Robertsons would do to atheists and even gays and liberals in general?

I'm all for freedom of speak and don't desire to dictate what can and cannot be said. I like the idea of educating the offended or bullied about the stupid and ignorant name callers to devalue their power. "Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself. " Hermione from Harry Potter.

[FFaith]

I don't see how lying to them by telling them about a supposed world filled with shitty people who think their very existence is a joke to be made a mockery of is supposed to make them feel better. I'd think that would make me feel much worse. I'd be thinking, why are there so many shitty people out there who hate me so much? The truth might actually give me some kind of comfort though. If I was told the truth, that people are usually sympathetic and feel bad for me, regardless of what words they use, I think I'd like that better. I don't see how "people don't give a shit about you" is supposed to make a mentally challenged person feel better. You might think you're helping, but I don't see how that could possibly be helping anyone and anyone trying to convince these people that we hate them or simply don't give a shit about them should be ashamed.

[Anon2381]

I don't see how lying to them by telling them about a supposed world filled with shitty people who think their very existence is a joke to be made a mockery of is supposed to make them feel better. I'd think that would make me feel much worse. I'd be thinking, why are there so many shitty people out there who hate me so much? The truth might actually give me some kind of comfort though. If I was told the truth, that people are usually sympathetic and feel bad for me, regardless of what words they use, I think I'd like that better. I don't see how "people don't give a shit about you" is supposed to make a mentally challenged person feel better. You might think you're helping, but I don't see how that could possibly be helping anyone and anyone trying to convince these people that we hate them or simply don't give a shit about them should be ashamed.

Mentally challenged people aren't stupid. They are usually the most genuine straightforward people, so I think being honest about all sorts of people good and bad is important. Its like black people not knowing that there are fuckhead racists that hate them for no reason. Stay away from those bastards id tell my black kid. Every race, sex, sexual preference, sexual identity etc have haters, so why is it bad to be aware of them to lesson the value of their hurtful words?

[FFaith]

What I would tell them is that most of the people who make fun of them are immature teenagers and most of them will grow out of it. Some will not grow out of it, but try not to let that bother you. That's what I would tell them. Not that all the millions of people who use the word 'retarded' meaning no harm, are actually pricks who just love to make fun of them and think their existence needs to be mocked. I rarely ever use the word myself, but there should be no issue with anyone using it when they mean no harm. If it's ok to say lame, it's ok to say retarded. It's the exact same thing. There is no logical reason why one is worse than the other. Yes, there are people who make fun of the mentally challenged and have no compassion for them, but that's not what she was talking about. She was saying that the millions of people who mean no harm and just don't want their language policed are shitty people and that telling mentally challenged people how shitty we are and how against them we are is going to make them feel better. I just don't see how that adds up.

[Athene]

People know good and goddamned well that they're "able" to use the word 'nigger' any time they wish to. 

What whining, bitch-assed snowflakes really want is the freedom to say 'nigger' or whatever the hell else they want...As everyone else promptly yields to their sense of special snowflake entitlement, by simply liking it and/or SHUTTING THE FUCK UP. 

Because, the "harsh" reality of human response/reaction "triggers" these dumb motherfuckers; Much more so than any of the alleged SJWs whom they have hard-on for vilifying at every turn.

The irony is laughable. 

Hypocritical cunts.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Anyone of any race can say any word ... but that doesn't excuse them from pushback.

You want to use racial epithets? Go right ahead.

And don't cry about the pushback.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.
You just can't say the N word without raising the eyebrows of a good amount of people.
So if you insist on doing it, then do it but you better prepare for the shit storm because nobody will feel the slightest bit of compassion for you.

@Vorly,

hehehehehe you're bad