What moral justification besides bodily autonomy do you use to support the position t

[Losty]

I've already said a woman's bodily autonomy should be absolute. Meaning I think abortion should be legal up to the point of birth.

[DogmaticDownSouth]

I've already said a woman's bodily autonomy should be absolute. Meaning I think abortion should be legal up to the point of birth.

I may have replied earlier, great you are consistent
I disagree with your morality choices, but respect your consistency

[Minimalist]

For the longest time, one of a woman's primary jobs, as far as the ruling men were concerned, was to pop out babies.

Depending on geography and culture that has not changed much.

[Ravenshire]

I'm a pragmatist. There are wayyyyyy too many starving kids living in abject poverty today to condone forcing an unwilling mother to carry to term.

Let's look at some of the other pragmatic results of forcing unwilling mothers to carry to term. Best case scenario, she comes to love the child and is glad she didn't have an abortion, but the kid still gets to live in the conditions the mother provides. If she's broke, the kid grows up in poverty. If she's well off, well bonus. But, what if the mom is a user? Maybe she just has anger management issue. Shaken baby syndrome anyone? What if she turns abusive? Neglectful? And, please, if you were considering going there, the "just put 'em up for adoption" argument is a sad, sad joke.

There are many, many reasons a woman might want an abortion and I'm betting "Oops, guess I should been more careful" is way down the list.

And, before you start conflating my morality with my opinion on abortion... I never said I would want a late term abortion or urge someone who doesn't want a late term abortion to have one. I simply would have no problem with them being legal. Personally, I think if you can't figure out what you want in the four or five months most laws allow, you probably never will and that late term abortions would mostly be done for the same reasons they're legally done today.

First:

• In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.
  Percentage
  Reason
  <0.5%
  Victim of rape
  3%
  Fetal health problems
  4%
  Physical health problems
  4%
  Would interfere with education or career
  7%
  Not mature enough to raise a child
  8%
  Don't want to be a single mother
  19%
  Done having children
  23%
  Can't afford a baby
  25%
  Not ready for a child
  6%
  Other
  
• The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.
  Percentage
  Reason
  .001%
  The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship
  .065%
  The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy
  .085%
  The woman was raped
  .288%
  The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy
  .294%
  The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy
  .666%
  There was a serious fetal abnormality
  6.268%
  The woman aborted for social or economic reasons
  92.330%
  No reason (elective)
  

Source: http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abo...tatistics/

Next,
Why assume that the child remains under the care of the mother? adoption and ward of the state are other potential options.
While poverty does exist in this country, I would argue in the USA starvation (as seen in 3rd world countries) is rare at best and if you have data that supports that abortions reduce that rate then I would be interested to hear them, Counterpoint
Single women who make $47,000 or more a year abort 32 percent of their pregnancies, whereas single women making $11,670 a year or less abort only 8.6 percent of their pregnancies.
Source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/201..._more.html

Regardless however, the moral (not legal) argument seems to be that kill more kids means less poverty? What is the moral distinction then between the fetus one second before delivery and the child one second after delivery? If you don't believe that a fetus is a right bearer then awesome, I have a seperate thread dedicated to that question as well.

There are a lot of If's that have little to do with abortion. A 2 year old might end up being sexually abused and scarred for life, kill them just in case? A 2 week old might end up being the next hitler (or trump!) kill them just in case? What is the joke with adoption? would you rather be in an orphanage or dead? more importantly should I get to decide if you are in an orphanage or dead? That is the more equivalent statement. An external power is determining if you are better off dead or possibly poor.

I live in the deep south - it's in the name.  I see as abject poverty as there is to be seen in the US, I;m also of asian heritage and have seen true 3rd world poverty. yet, I have seen happiness, joy, and love in all of these situations along side anger, hate, pain, and sufferring. These are the unfortunate truths of a universe that could care less about us. However just becuase you COULD have sufferring does not mean you WILL, and more important does not mean you can not have a life worth living.

I'm not going to argue reasons women give for abortions because quite plainly I don't give a shit. "I don't want to have this baby" is plenty reason enough.

Adoption and state wards? Really? Like those systems aren't overwhelmed already.

I completely accept that moral permisibiity is not the same and advocacy. That said, what we believe should be allowed drives that which we allow.

(emphasis is mine)

This is what I take offense to from your argument and every other stick their nose in, busybody asshole whose opposed to abortion. Who gave you the right to be the arbiter of morality for anyone other than yourself? Don't like abortions? Don't fucking have one. Pushing your morality on others when their moral decision has absolutely no fucking bearing on you is just a dick thing to do. Who the fuck are you to decide what's allowable?!?

[Astonished]

This wouldn't even be 1/10 as big an issue if birth control education, distribution and usage wasn't being put down by false religious doctrines. In this day and age it should literally be absolutely fucking impossible to get pregnant if you don't want to unless you're raped or something unforeseen. Why not focus on preventing what leads up to the need for abortions, or at least the discussion of it?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

The argument is that women should be able to do anything with the baby as long as it's in her..because her body her choice...well.. that's the argument..I don't necessarily agree with it..obviously each case will be different but taking a stance of pro life or pro choice regardless of the circumstances is a liiittle too extreme for my tastes.. ...

[Thumpalumpacus]

I am here to hear other's opinoins in a venue that I assuemd there would skeptical thinkers capable of free thought and challenging their intellect. I may be wrong.

There are good thinkers and dumbasses everywhere. The real question is, which one are you going to be?

I'm not here to make friends for life, if that is your intent.

Nor am I, as you may have figured out by now -- or maybe not.

I have enough friends and family in real life, so this forum is an interesting diversion to interact with people who I thotugh could be intersting and challenge my beliefs. I have so far been sorely dissapointed.

Well, aren't you the superior thinker?

You want to talk disappointed? Let's talk about some asshole who asks that his views be questioned because he wants to see things from a different angle, only to refuse consideration of any points given to him cogent though they may be.

People keep asking why so many threads, my questions is why do  you care. If you want to know about the conversation, then read them and join, if you don't then don't.

Diffusing the conversation is a great way to keep a lot of hooks in the water.

This is truly a situatiun with only 1 agent involved, you. Your actions have no impact on anyone else and your refusal to comment on my posts is your right.
I do think that commenting to be disparaging is rude.

Tough shit. Get a helmet and shut the hell up.

Again how do you define troll?

My definition is nothing special. Next you're going to tell me you don't know what a troll is, right? *yawn*

[GUBU]

I prefer to have the argument I acttually made be critized in threads that I start asking for criticisim of my arguments (crazy right?)

That's rich coming from a person pretending to be a doctor in the other thread he spammed in order to shout down posters disagreeing with him.

[Mister Agenda]

A human fetus has the potential to become a human person. That gives it more value in my opinion than a rabbit fetus. I'm uncomfortable with late third-trimester abortions that aren't medically advised or due to not having access to abortion services sooner; but such cases seem to be very rare. My discomfort is not an argument for a woman not to be allowed to choose to have such an abortion.

Birth being the line may be somewhat arbitrary, in that the same fetus could have been born a day earlier and been fine, but any line is going to be somewhat arbitrary for the same reason...if the cut-off is 60 days into the pregnancy, the 59 day-old fetus isn't particularly different from a 60-day old one.

The main issue I have is the use of force necessarily invoked when you make something illegal. However close the fetus may be to being viable, it doesn't have a right to be born that exceeds the pregnant woman's right not to be forced to birth it.

[Rev. Rye]

Well, here's one crucual point: Making it illegal makes things a whole lot worse than things would be if it was simply kept legal. Case in point, an old OB-GYN who was active in the pre-Roe days explains all the medical procedures he had to perform on women who had to terminate their own pregnancies illegally, practices that vanished when the Supreme Court authorised medical personnel who actually knew what the Hell they were doing to perform it.

For a more visceral example, a woman named Gerri Santoro tried to have a friend abort her pregnancy in a motel. It went about as well as one might expect it to, and the police photo of her mortal husk lying on the floor with a towel between her legs has become something of a pro-choice symbol. And it's pretty gruesome; fortunately, I can't find it in any sort of decent resolution, but I won't post it here regardless, but it should be easy enough to find online. Once again, if she had had someone who knew what they were doing performing it, she would most likely have survived.

It's worth nothing that, according to CDC statistics, 3,809,954 were performed between 2008 and 2012. Of those, only 36 resulted in death. Note that, as unfortunate as 36 women dying is, this is still, in fact, significantly less than the number of women who die in childbirth (and in any country). Still, the chances of either one are pretty slim, but take either out of the hands of medical professionals, and we can expect the odds to rise.