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Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
#31
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
Arranged marriages suck too. Women had it bad in the old days, and they're still struggling at times today. It doesn't help that the bible seems to lay most of the blame on mankind's fall on Eve, when both she and Adam ate the fruit. Nevermind the problems that come from taking the story literally anyway.

Men must have really hated that women had any kind of control over them, in the form of being willing to do just about anything for sex. So they demonized sex, and called any woman who enjoyed sex bad for it.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#32
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
(July 19, 2017 at 10:52 am)alpha male Wrote:
(July 18, 2017 at 5:02 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: And nothing in that passage says "if she agrees to become your wife".  The woman has no say and no choice. It only says to not treat her brutally and to not sell her as a slave.  This is because she is no longer a virgin, and therefore damaged goods, and it's because her kidnapper raped her.

If you're applying modern Western values to the era, then you must also recognize that the woman probably wouldn't have had a say and a choice anyway. She probably would have been in a marriage arranged by her parents.

So, in your view, these people gave up their daughters to be raped. Yet, you seemingly disagree with them being punished for that.

Yes, they gave their daughters to be raped.  They sold her into a life of sexual slavery.  That was indeed normal for that era.  But at least they had some time to prepare her for it, she didn't have to watch her family slaughtered by her "husband" and then be carted off to start a life of Stockholm Syndrome, servitude and slavery.  

This was also, basically, the fate of women in the USA until the early 1900's - most of the time -- without the kidnapping part.  My Great-Great-Grandmother was "given" to my Great-Great-Grandfather when his first wife died, because she was an "old maid" (25) and no man had claimed her.  She was asked, at the age of 94, if she had loved her husband.  Her answer was "I respected and obeyed him, as I was instructed to do".  When pressed, "But did you learn to love him?" - her answer was "Well I got used to having him around, he was better than some I knew, and I did kind of miss him after he passed."  Her story was not at all unusual.  It was typical.  -- This, for many women, was the best they could hope for. Until the first World War, a female in America could not make a living on her own.  They could not hold a job or own property.  They had no rights.

It's too bad the all-knowing, moral deity who set down lots of rules for his beloved chosen people was incapable of telling them that women were people.  The list of things this all-knowing, all-powerful, all-benevolent, all-seeing god didn't know is very, very long.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#33
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
(July 19, 2017 at 4:40 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:
(July 19, 2017 at 10:52 am)alpha male Wrote: If you're applying modern Western values to the era, then you must also recognize that the woman probably wouldn't have had a say and a choice anyway. She probably would have been in a marriage arranged by her parents.

So, in your view, these people gave up their daughters to be raped. Yet, you seemingly disagree with them being punished for that.

Yes, they gave their daughters to be raped.  They sold her into a life of sexual slavery.  That was indeed normal for that era.  But at least they had some time to prepare her for it, she didn't have to watch her family slaughtered by her "husband" and then be carted off to start a life of Stockholm Syndrome, servitude and slavery.  

This was also, basically, the fate of women in the USA until the early 1900's - most of the time -- without the kidnapping part.  My Great-Great-Grandmother was "given" to my Great-Great-Grandfather when his first wife died, because she was an "old maid" (25) and no man had claimed her.  She was asked, at the age of 94, if she had loved her husband.  Her answer was "I respected and obeyed him, as I was instructed to do".  When pressed, "But did you learn to love him?" - her answer was "Well I got used to having him around, he was better than some I knew, and I did kind of miss him after he passed."  Her story was not at all unusual.  It was typical.  -- This, for many women, was the best they could hope for. Until the first World War, a female in America could not make a living on her own.  They could not hold a job or own property.  They had no rights.

It's too bad the all-knowing, moral deity who set down lots of rules for his beloved chosen people was incapable of telling them that women were people.  The list of things this all-knowing, all-powerful, all-benevolent, all-seeing god didn't know is very, very long.

I'm sorry about your grandmother; I don't have much info on my family history but I don't imagine even recent generations were much better off given how crappy things turned out.

Isn't it abso-fucking-lutely amazing how a typical theist response will completely ignore the god-endorsed immorality and point the finger at man, giving god a free pass despite commanding women to be silent and submissive little baby factories. Yeah, people acted shitty back then, but when their god isn't telling them not to, or worse, telling them to do exactly that, then in what universe is that god supposed to be a good guy? Of course today's standards are what we use to judge them, because we have an enlightened fucking view of morality, not that backward barbarism back then that cannot be justified. Only by moving AWAY from faith-based crap do we improve all aspects of society. Making excuses to try and perpetuate them is tantamount to aiding and abetting the worst criminals in history.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?

---

There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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#34
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
(July 19, 2017 at 9:46 am)Chad32 Wrote:
(July 19, 2017 at 1:12 am)Godscreated Wrote:  Again you want your version to be true, even if it meant the rape of women, now that seems to put you in the same category you're judging others to be.
 You have failed to show that those women were raped. They could have been used as servants, wives and other things, things that do not include rape. You want anyone associated with God to be bad because you are bigoted towards us.
 I guess you're against defending your country, too.

GC

Wives that the guy never had sex with? I doubt it. I also doubt that anyone would want to have consensual sex with someone who killed their family and friends. Most people see rape as non consensual sex. what is rape to you? Why do you think it wouldn't count then, when it would count now? Because the people in power didn't consider it rape? That's kind of a flimsy excuse. 

We still have people today who think slavery is ok. If you were kidnapped in one of those countries and enslaved, I doubt you'd just be ok with it because it's their culture, and we shouldn't judge them by our standards.

 Of course they would have sex with them, they would be there wives and the scriptures tell us they did. Rape is brutal non-consensual sex, rape is more about violence than it is sex. You haven't proven it would be non-consensual sex, you are assuming it was non-consensual.
The land was promised to the Israelites long before they came out of Egypt, this is the land God gave to Abraham. The Israelites had to take the land because others were occupying it. As the Israelites were defeating their enemies what were they to do with these women, turn them loose that would have meant certain death for them. God had the Israelites to take these women in and give them an opportunity at a life. You keep referring to those times as if they were the same as today when they were not, it was a totally different world. The women taken were in need of men to survive (this was the way the whole world worked) and so I would say they were able to accept their situation.

You have an unrealistic idea about slavery, individual criminal organizations run the slave trade of today not countries. Those who engage in this type of slavery are criminals also, that's the way the world works today.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#35
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
It's kind of an educated guess that a woman wouldn't consent to having sex with a man that has the blood of her immediate family on his hands. What other evidence should I need? What other motivation should their be for her to not want to have sex with the guy?

Taking land from another people isn't really on topic. We're talking about the act of kidnapping young women and girls, and marrying them. As for turning them loose, why would that be a bad thing? Even if they felt like they needed to defeat the soldiers protecting those lands, at least let the civilians, men women and children, leave the area. If these men actually cared about providing for victims like the girls (which excludes the male children, by the way), then maybe they could have set up refugee camps or something. Dragging them home and marrying them was not the only option other than killing them. This isn't some kind of generosity on the part of the invading army, or it would have extended to all women and children, at the very least, and they wouldn't be marrying these people. They would be relocating them somewhere else where they could be in peace elsewhere. If they really needed men, then spare some of the men. I'm pretty sure you don't need to kill everyone in order to successfully take control of an area.

That's not how slavery works in every country today, no.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#36
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
Also I got to thinking, rape is a lot about violence and domination. Well the passage does mention shaving her head and humbling her, so yeah. Going through the ceremony and then consummating the marriage before deciding it's not working out could be part of the humbling experience, so the rape thing still fits.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply
#37
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
(July 20, 2017 at 1:27 am)Godscreated Wrote:
(July 19, 2017 at 9:46 am)Chad32 Wrote: Wives that the guy never had sex with? I doubt it. I also doubt that anyone would want to have consensual sex with someone who killed their family and friends. Most people see rape as non consensual sex. what is rape to you? Why do you think it wouldn't count then, when it would count now? Because the people in power didn't consider it rape? That's kind of a flimsy excuse. 

We still have people today who think slavery is ok. If you were kidnapped in one of those countries and enslaved, I doubt you'd just be ok with it because it's their culture, and we shouldn't judge them by our standards.

 Of course they would have sex with them, they would be there wives and the scriptures tell us they did. Rape is brutal non-consensual sex, rape is more about violence than it is sex. You haven't proven it would be non-consensual sex, you are assuming it was non-consensual.
The land was promised to the Israelites long before they came out of Egypt, this is the land God gave to Abraham. The Israelites had to take the land because others were occupying it. As the Israelites were defeating their enemies what were they to do with these women, turn them loose that would have meant certain death for them. God had the Israelites to take these women in and give them an opportunity at a life. You keep referring to those times as if they were the same as today when they were not, it was a totally different world. The women taken were in need of men to survive (this was the way the whole world worked) and so I would say they were able to accept their situation.

You have an unrealistic idea about slavery, individual criminal organizations run the slave trade of today not countries. Those who engage in this type of slavery are criminals also, that's the way the world works today.

GC



This wasn't even about the rape of an adult woman (which is still wrong), it was about the fact that the passage specifies that the prisoners are female children. Sorry, but in my opinion sex with a child is always rape. I don't care how gentle it is, I don't care if she's married to you, if she's a child it is rape. But wait, don't tell me. The Bible obviously meant that the guy would wait to have sex with her until after she had been his slave for a decade and had Stockholm Syndrome, right?
Being careful is for people who can't handle surprises.
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#38
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
(July 21, 2017 at 3:55 pm)Inkfeather132 Wrote:
(July 20, 2017 at 1:27 am)Godscreated Wrote:  Of course they would have sex with them, they would be there wives and the scriptures tell us they did. Rape is brutal non-consensual sex, rape is more about violence than it is sex. You haven't proven it would be non-consensual sex, you are assuming it was non-consensual.
The land was promised to the Israelites long before they came out of Egypt, this is the land God gave to Abraham. The Israelites had to take the land because others were occupying it. As the Israelites were defeating their enemies what were they to do with these women, turn them loose that would have meant certain death for them. God had the Israelites to take these women in and give them an opportunity at a life. You keep referring to those times as if they were the same as today when they were not, it was a totally different world. The women taken were in need of men to survive (this was the way the whole world worked) and so I would say they were able to accept their situation.

You have an unrealistic idea about slavery, individual criminal organizations run the slave trade of today not countries. Those who engage in this type of slavery are criminals also, that's the way the world works today.

GC



This wasn't even about the rape of an adult woman (which is still wrong), it was about the fact that the passage specifies that the prisoners are female children. Sorry, but in my opinion sex with a child is always rape. I don't care how gentle it is, I don't care if she's married to you, if she's a child it is rape. But wait, don't tell me. The Bible obviously meant that the guy would wait to have sex with her until after she had been his slave for a decade and had Stockholm Syndrome, right?

 Where does it say that they married them while they were children, you are good at putting everyone in the same category. I also explained that the women/children would die on there own, they had no way to make a living and people couldn't afford to take them in even if they could reach other people, a war was going on.

(July 21, 2017 at 1:24 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Also I got to thinking, rape is a lot about violence and domination. Well the passage does mention shaving her head and humbling her, so yeah. Going through the ceremony and then consummating the marriage before deciding it's not working out could be part of the humbling experience, so the rape thing still fits.

No it doesn't because rape is more about brutality, sex is secondary.

GC

(July 19, 2017 at 10:57 am)Chad32 Wrote: Arranged marriages suck too. Women had it bad in the old days, and they're still struggling at times today. It doesn't help that the bible seems to lay most of the blame on mankind's fall on Eve, when both she and Adam ate the fruit. Nevermind the problems that come from taking the story literally anyway.

Men must have really hated that women had any kind of control over them, in the form of being willing to do just about anything for sex. So they demonized sex, and called any woman who enjoyed sex bad for it.

You will find every Christian believes that Adam is to blame and the Bible approaches it that way also.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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#39
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
(July 22, 2017 at 2:07 am)Godscreated Wrote:

Quote:You will find every Christian believes that Adam is to blame and the Bible approaches it that way also.

GC
You profess to believe in the Bible but you sure do call it a pack of lies a lot.


1 Timothy 1:13-14 (CEV) = "13 After all, Adam was created before Eve, 14 and the man Adam wasn’t the one who was fooled. It was the woman Eve who was completely fooled and sinned. "
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#40
RE: Lol the bible is actually ok with pedophilia, proof from passage
See GC, if your paragon of morality with infinite power has to conform to the culture and morality of the time, then either he is a powerless asshole or simply imaginary.
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu

Join me on atheistforums Slack Cool Shades (pester tibs via pm if you need invite) Tongue

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