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Current time: 16th October 2017, 17:56

Poll: How moral is moral enough?
This poll is closed.
It is enough that a person is pro-socially oriented with a well developed capacity for empathy which places a very high priority on not harming others in a manner one would not welcome if the positions were reversed.
100.00%
4 100.00%
In addition to the above, a person should articulate a moral hierarchy of concerns and strive never to act toward others in a manner inconsistent with that system, or else feel a well deserved sense of failure.
0%
0 0%
In addition to the above, that system should to some degree prescribe actions taken to benefit others .. not merely avoid harming them.
0%
0 0%
In addition to all of the above, acting in a manner consistent with ones moral system should at all times be the most important consideration in ones life.
0%
0 0%
Total 4 vote(s) 100%
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So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
#1
So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
I personally find it more and more difficult to stay awake through a thread on morality .. so WTF am I doing starting a new one?

Well I guess I'm more interested in asking what its place in human affairs should be than in deciding between objective/subjective, absolute/relative, etc.  Clearly morality has its place in child rearing but once someone has established a basically prosocial disposition what more is required?  How specific should we hope the moral toolbox of a community-ready neophyte citizen to be?  Is it enough that a community member avoid harming others or doe we expect them to devote their attention to maximizing their moral excellence .. helping the older ladies across the street, charitable giving, that sort of thing.

If we think moral excellence is important, is it the most important consideration or are there others nearly, equally or even more important?  In other words, do we hope that moral considerations will be the prime determinant in how a person orders their life, or is it enough that they cause no harm while dancing to the drummer they hear?  In short, how moral is moral enough?

Gawd help me I guess I'd better come up with a poll, if only to keep Khem happy.

Here are the choices I can think of.  Pick the one that comes closest and elaborate or skip them altogether and say in your own way how much morality is moral enough?

1) It is enough that a person is pro-socially oriented with a well developed capacity for empathy which places a very high priority on not harming others in a manner one would not welcome if the positions were reversed.

2) In addition to 1, to attain peer-of-the-realm status, a person should articulate a moral hierarchy of concerns and strive never to act toward others in a manner inconsistent with that system, or else feel a well deserved sense of failure.

3) In addition to 1 & 2, that system should to some degree prescribe actions taken to benefit others .. not merely avoid harming them. 

4) In addition to 1 - 3, acting in a manner consistent with ones moral system should at all times be the most important consideration in ones life.


I think I'll make this poll public and one choice only.
Your good friend (with benefits) and trusted confidant,
W.W. Whateverist, esq.
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#2
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
(16th July 2017, 18:12)Whateverist Wrote: I personally find it more and more difficult to stay awake through a thread on morality .. so WTF am I doing starting a new one?

Well I guess I'm more interested in asking what its place in human affairs should be than in deciding between objective/subjective, absolute/relative, etc.  Clearly morality has its place in child rearing but once someone has established a basically prosocial disposition what more is required?  How specific should we hope the moral toolbox of a community-ready neophyte citizen to be?  Is it enough that a community member avoid harming others or doe we expect them to devote their attention to maximizing their moral excellence .. helping the older ladies across the street, charitable giving, that sort of thing.

If we think moral excellence is important, is it the most important consideration or are there others nearly, equally or even more important?  In other words, do we hope that moral considerations will be the prime determinant in how a person orders their life, or is it enough that they cause no harm while dancing to the drummer they hear?  In short, how moral is moral enough?

Gawd help me I guess I'd better come up with a poll, if only to keep Khem happy.

Here are the choices I can think of.  Pick the one that comes closest and elaborate or skip them altogether and say in your own way how much morality is moral enough?

1) It is enough that a person is pro-socially oriented with a well developed capacity for empathy which places a very high priority on not harming others in a manner one would not welcome if the positions were reversed.

2) In addition to 1, to attain peer-of-the-realm status, a person should articulate a moral hierarchy of concerns and strive never to act toward others in a manner inconsistent with that system, or else feel a well deserved sense of failure.

3) In addition to 1 & 2, that system should to some degree prescribe actions taken to benefit others .. not merely avoid harming them. 

4) In addition to 1 - 3, acting in a manner consistent with ones moral system should at all times be the most important consideration in ones life.


I think I'll make this poll public and one choice only.
Morals are how we live with ourselves. Ethics are how we live with others.
Reply
#3
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
The idea is that through hypotheticals and play acting we can reach a set of moral conclusions that may be real handy for moments when there is no time to conduct any sort of thorough moral reasoning...or so that we might instill habitual responses for those instances in which our moral agency is severely compromised.  

While it's easy, in a polite and moral society, to wonder how important it is, we only wonder that because of our privilege.  The immense amount of time we've spent on the subject (and what suffering we either inflict or suffer to be inflicted on our fellow man) demonstrates that there is still no such thing as time wasted on ethics. When poverty is eliminated, when the last person to die of hunger or to go blind from malnutrition is mourned. When we have no cause or need to engage in crime or war against our fellow man...then, maybe, an emphasis on morality will have run it's course.
Eat em up beat em up then switch sides.


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#4
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
I suppose you're right, Khem. It is a matter of privilege. But if the day ever arrives where that privilege is available to all, then what should we do?

As you can see, I lean toward minimally moral. Once we're out of the preparatory stages lets just get on with it.

(16th July 2017, 18:15)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(16th July 2017, 18:12)Whateverist Wrote: I personally find it more and more difficult to stay awake through a thread on morality .. so WTF am I doing starting a new one?

Well I guess I'm more interested in asking what its place in human affairs should be than in deciding between objective/subjective, absolute/relative, etc.  Clearly morality has its place in child rearing but once someone has established a basically prosocial disposition what more is required?  How specific should we hope the moral toolbox of a community-ready neophyte citizen to be?  Is it enough that a community member avoid harming others or doe we expect them to devote their attention to maximizing their moral excellence .. helping the older ladies across the street, charitable giving, that sort of thing.

If we think moral excellence is important, is it the most important consideration or are there others nearly, equally or even more important?  In other words, do we hope that moral considerations will be the prime determinant in how a person orders their life, or is it enough that they cause no harm while dancing to the drummer they hear?  In short, how moral is moral enough?

Gawd help me I guess I'd better come up with a poll, if only to keep Khem happy.

Here are the choices I can think of.  Pick the one that comes closest and elaborate or skip them altogether and say in your own way how much morality is moral enough?

1) It is enough that a person is pro-socially oriented with a well developed capacity for empathy which places a very high priority on not harming others in a manner one would not welcome if the positions were reversed.

2) In addition to 1, to attain peer-of-the-realm status, a person should articulate a moral hierarchy of concerns and strive never to act toward others in a manner inconsistent with that system, or else feel a well deserved sense of failure.

3) In addition to 1 & 2, that system should to some degree prescribe actions taken to benefit others .. not merely avoid harming them. 

4) In addition to 1 - 3, acting in a manner consistent with ones moral system should at all times be the most important consideration in ones life.


I think I'll make this poll public and one choice only.
Morals are how we live with ourselves. Ethics are how we live with others.


I guess I see what you mean, but of course both are about how we live with others.  But morality gets at what is going on in our own deliberations where as ethics focuses policy choices intended for the larger social good.
Your good friend (with benefits) and trusted confidant,
W.W. Whateverist, esq.
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#5
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
The society in which I live determines the minimum moral standard thru enforcement of law(s). Beyond that the morals an individual adheres to are their own, my assumption is that it would be based on set and setting. 

To me, your list of ascending(?) choices of morals almost feels like an application to judge others. I can't do that because I don't live the same life as others. I'd hope that they would be similar to mine but can't necessarily fault them when theirs seem to be lacking (when compared to mine) and don't want to be looked down upon when they find mine lacking.
God(s) and religions are man made and the bane of humanity. 

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. Ozzy or Twain/take your pick
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#6
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
Honestly, Bill and Ted said it best: "Be excellent to each other."
"Crooked Warden, Nameless Thirteenth, Thiefwatcher, Benefactor, Father of Necessary Pretexts, I will fear no darkness for the night is yours, Your night is my cloak, my shield, my escape from those who hunt to feed the noose. I will fear no evil, for you have made the night my friend.

Bless the Benefactor, Peace and profit to his children."

From the book "Red Seas Under Red Skies" by Scott Lynch
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#7
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
Quote:I personally find it more and more difficult to stay awake through a thread on morality

What is the incentive to try?


Reply
#8
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
The question is paradoxical. I'm only concerned with morality if it's in my nature to be so.

The answer is: we should be concerned with morality as I want us to be-- not more, not less.
Reply
#9
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
(16th July 2017, 18:22)Whateverist Wrote: I suppose you're right, Khem.  It is a matter of privilege.  But if the day ever arrives where that privilege is available to all, then what should we do?
If that day ever arrives no one will be talking about morality.  It will become an obsolete concept insomuch as it refers to the background noise of life and no specific choice we make.  Personally, I don't think that day can or will ever come.  The very last reason to harm is the most difficult to moderate.  When we don't do it out of ignorance or fear or profit...we'll do it for fun.  

Quote:As you can see, I lean toward minimally moral.  Once we're out of the preparatory stages lets just get on with it.
I do too, for pure ease of use, knowing what kind of animal we are, lol.

"Don't be a dick" works for 99% of morality, for the other 1%..the judicious application of bricks will suffice.  Wink
Eat em up beat em up then switch sides.


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#10
RE: So how much should we concern ourselves with morality? How much is enough?
(16th July 2017, 18:44)mh.brewer Wrote: The society in which I live determines the minimum moral standard thru enforcement of law(s). Beyond that the morals an individual adheres to are their own, my assumption is that it would be based on set and setting. 

To me, your list of ascending(?) choices of morals almost feels like an application to judge others.

They are meant to represent moral stances which are increasingly prescriptive in terms of the demands they place on those who hold to them. I would have thought a theist would be more likely to hold one of the later positions, while those who hold to naturalism might be more likely to go with the first. But judging from the poll it doesn't seem to fall out that way. I would also have predicted that conservatives might be more inclined to choose one of the latter choices.

I'm not sure what about the wording makes you think it has more to do with judging others. I tend to think of it as directing ones own action.

(16th July 2017, 19:05)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:I personally find it more and more difficult to stay awake through a thread on morality

What is the incentive to try?


If you're not raising kids, I'm really losing a handle on the answer to your question.
Your good friend (with benefits) and trusted confidant,
W.W. Whateverist, esq.
Reply



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