Would it be worth it?

[Astonished]

Thank you, I was wondering why so many people were having such a weird hangup about that misapprehension.

But for the sake of this hypothetical, because this authoritarian force is beyond human, the assumption is that they are either prohibited from becoming corrupt via programming (in the case of the I, Robot androids) or because they are already in possession of such power and technology that humans have nothing to offer and therefore need not be exploited, which the Overlords from Childhood's End fall under. Or whatever other superior entities would be capable of a global overnight reformation. With a prerogative of benevolence, regardless of (one would think, more or less reasonable) restrictions on personal freedoms. So we're not going the 'are they going to stab us in the back' route here, just for simplicity.

If you stop thinking and doing for yourself you are just a helpless newborn baby.  Would you like to live to be 100 years old but never advance beyond the attributes of a one-day old baby?

Are you just ignoring the content of my posts that says NONE of that is what would actually result for numerous reasons? You're making false equivalencies left and right and I don't understand how that's possible unless you're just not even bothering to think about it beyond a fraction of a second. I literally can't see how you could come to this conclusion, I really, REALLY don't. In what way does enabling us to advance, ever so slowly, to or near the point that this superior power has reached, make us helpless or restrain us mentally? If anything it would only unlock our untapped potential as a species and spur us on an upward trajectory we'd never have reached on our own. Or do you imagine that 90% of the world would be too slow to catch up if given the opportunity, or too paralyzed by their religious convictions, or too unwilling to trust that things were truly possible to be going so well, that they'd just give up and die off like the first few generations in the Matrix that couldn't handle living in a machine's idea of utopia? Yes, life sucks, and for the most part, people suck, but, fuck, man, if all but 10% died of boredom and that 10% became the generation of perpetual geniuses, shit, that's still a win in my book.

Here's how I picture a day in that life. I get up out of bed. I spend some time waking up, maybe posting on here to see how being really groggy affects how I respond to things. I make breakfast and eat it while watching TV or a movie. I take a shower and get dressed. I get on my bike and head out the door to work or, if the infrastructure of things is such that certain jobs are no longer necessary to be carried out by humans, to school, and not have to worry about being run over by a drunk or inattentive driver. I associate with my friends, we talk, eat, enjoy some media or literature, attend another class or two together, and learn things I didn't know before. Maybe I get help from the teacher or tutor for things I don't understand. Maybe I fail a test or quiz, or the entire class. So I decide to take it again next semester and hopefully do better. Why not? I can try as many times as I want because there's no reason I can't do that. Maybe I feel a little embarrassed or ashamed if I'm not performing as well as my peers but I have good reason not to give up even if it seems futile; the game of education here isn't necessarily rigged to win but I have an entire lifetime to try to reach that goal if I choose to persevere. If I have a romantic partner we can spend time together at the end of the day (or during, depending on our schedules; we may not have full freedom in determining those, after all). We can argue, get heated, maybe spend some time apart, maybe break up altogether. Not exactly the most pleasant thing but still a learning experience and room for personal growth. Hardly a 'paradise' with zero strife or suffering.

So please, anyone who wants to maintain that this will cause us to utterly stagnate, WHY? I just don't get it. At all. We're talking about people not being able to act upon their racist, homophobic and other harmful ideologies, an increase in safety and healthcare service, and ensuring that all people everywhere have access to safe, comfortable housing, food and water. Beyond that, not much else radically different. Hardly utopian. Just a semi-forceful restraint on our baser instincts and stupidity.

[mordant]

... We can argue, get heated, maybe spend some time apart, maybe break up altogether. Not exactly the most pleasant thing but still a learning experience and room for personal growth. Hardly a 'paradise' with zero strife or suffering.

So please, anyone who wants to maintain that this will cause us to utterly stagnate, WHY? I just don't get it. At all. We're talking about people not being able to act upon their racist, homophobic and other harmful ideologies, an increase in safety and healthcare service, and ensuring that all people everywhere have access to safe, comfortable housing, food and water. Beyond that, not much else radically different. Hardly utopian. Just a semi-forceful restraint on our baser instincts and stupidity.

Completely agree (granted your hypothetical) and feel this is tied up with the notion that suffering is necessary / ennobling when in fact it's a huge distraction from personal growth and character improvement.

I think people confuse overcoming adversity and the lessons learned from that, with the notion that this is somehow the only or even best avenue for personal growth and the pursuit of wisdom.

I had a period in my life where I was physically constrained by painful chronic illness, which was later completely cured. I can tell you that while I learned to persevere in the face of that particular difficulty, I did so in SPITE of the difficulty, not BECAUSE of it. I am FAR better off now than I was with the illness and have not lacked for opportunities to grow and improve. To the contrary, I have had MORE opportunities to focus on such things. For one thing I am not putting all my life force into a daily slog of survival.

Similarly the separate deaths of my prior wife and my son were distractions from the growth I was already experiencing in the roles of husband and father. They were, and are, losses with heavy costs. They have diminished me. They have deprived me of people I loved and valued. And I submit that to the extent I have had the strength to carry on, it's because I ALREADY possessed it;, it wasn't bestowed on me by grief and loss.

Similarly, just to pick one example, if I did not have to wake up every morning wondering what crazy shit TRump has tweeted or what he and his minions have done to assault our institutions and erode our ethical and compassionate norms, if I did not have to live with the knowledge that people who support this moron exist and thrive in sufficient numbers to have rewarded him with the mutherucking presidency, and that basically no one has the moral courage to do anything usefully substantive about any of it ... if some benevolent alien would squash him like a bug right now, you can bloody well BET I would be (1) better off and (2) not lacking for self advancement opportunities; indeed, if I were far enough down the status ladder I would doubtless have much BETTER chances at breaking out of debt / poverty / disease.

[Cyberman]

Eventually I expect 'wearable friends' (or even implanted ones) will become ubiquitous.

I want a wearable friend.

[Astonished]

... We can argue, get heated, maybe spend some time apart, maybe break up altogether. Not exactly the most pleasant thing but still a learning experience and room for personal growth. Hardly a 'paradise' with zero strife or suffering.

So please, anyone who wants to maintain that this will cause us to utterly stagnate, WHY? I just don't get it. At all. We're talking about people not being able to act upon their racist, homophobic and other harmful ideologies, an increase in safety and healthcare service, and ensuring that all people everywhere have access to safe, comfortable housing, food and water. Beyond that, not much else radically different. Hardly utopian. Just a semi-forceful restraint on our baser instincts and stupidity.

Completely agree (granted your hypothetical) and feel this is tied up with the notion that suffering is necessary / ennobling when in fact it's a huge distraction from personal growth and character improvement.

I think people confuse overcoming adversity and the lessons learned from that, with the notion that this is somehow the only or even best avenue for personal growth and the pursuit of wisdom.

I had a period in my life where I was physically constrained by painful chronic illness, which was later completely cured. I can tell you that while I learned to persevere in the face of that particular difficulty, I did so in SPITE of the difficulty, not BECAUSE of it. I am FAR better off now than I was with the illness and have not lacked for opportunities to grow and improve. To the contrary, I have had MORE opportunities to focus on such things. For one thing I am not putting all my life force into a daily slog of survival.

Similarly the separate deaths of my prior wife and my son were distractions from the growth I was already experiencing in the roles of husband and father. They were, and are, losses with heavy costs. They have diminished me. They have deprived me of people I loved and valued. And I submit that to the extent I have had the strength to carry on, it's because I ALREADY possessed it;, it wasn't bestowed on me by grief and loss.

Similarly, just to pick one example, if I did not have to wake up every morning wondering what crazy shit TRump has tweeted or what he and his minions have done to assault our institutions and erode our ethical and compassionate norms, if I did not have to live with the knowledge that people who support this moron exist and thrive in sufficient numbers to have rewarded him with the mutherucking presidency, and that basically no one has the moral courage to do anything usefully substantive about any of it ... if some benevolent alien would squash him like a bug right now, you can bloody well BET I would be (1) better off and (2) not lacking for self advancement opportunities; indeed, if I were far enough down the status ladder I would doubtless have much BETTER chances at breaking out of debt / poverty / disease.

I am sorry for your losses but I admire your strength in battling through your pain and grief. I couldn't have said any of that better myself, so hopefully that will make clear to everyone that there's no reason to believe this will cause any stagnation at all. And I didn't say necessarily that this robotic or alien force would 'squash Trump like a bug', they'd simply remove any mechanisms by which he or his supporters have any ability to do anything harmful to anyone. If they don't like that, well, they can learn to enjoy being restrained constantly or change their minds about the world. Or kill themselves out of frustration with being impotent. I'm fine with any of those three.

[Foxaèr]

I want a wearable friend.

Okay, Jame Gumb.

[Astonished]

I want a wearable friend.

Okay, Jame Gumb.

That's Buffalo Bill, thank ya very much. Also Lecter wore a guy's face so he had a wearable friend too. But speaking of which, I don't think excessively violent/gory or exploitative art would be restricted so there would still be some creative outlets for people wanting to descend into that darker reptilian brain indulgence. At least in this hypothetical takeover.

[Cyberman]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of wear like a condom. As usual.

[Astonished]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of wear like a condom. As usual.

I think the overlords could probably come up with a much more effective, less pleasure-reducing means of birth control on our behalf. Although I would think our reproduction would be strictly regulated (the way it ought to be if we weren't so fucking stupid about it) by them, so if that's a freedom you would not enjoy being taken away, this might not be the world you'd want to live in. Personally I would relish being able to fuck all I want and not worry about becoming a parent at all, condoms be damned, until I am completely ready to take on that responsibility.

[Dropship]

The amount of stupidity in this world is just beyond belief. I've pretty much lost all hope we'll be able to do anything about it...

Whoa Jack, we can simply refuse pointblank not to dance to the stupid world's tune, and free our minds from it..
Jesus said:- "The world wants you to dance to its tune......God has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners...to release the oppressed" (Matt 11:16/17,Luke 4:18 )

[Cyberman]

You're refusing not to dance? Would you like to try that again?