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Current time: March 28, 2024, 2:21 pm

Poll: Was the Blogger's comment homphobic?
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Is this homophobic?
#41
RE: Is this homophobic?
Yeah that's reaching to call that homophobic in almost every sense.

"Homophobia" is verbally or physically lashing out at LGB people, or denying us rights. It's nothing more or less than that.

Let people have humour ffs, I actually found that funny, and I didn't read it as "bashing" gay people whatsoever. I can take a joke, and so can most gay people I know, we're not all sensitive cunts who need to be treated with kid gloves and can't take a joke at our expense.

I remember a similar situation a while back involving Simon Cowell. Everyone got so outraged at this on our behalf;





Ok maybe this was a little crass for live TV, but fuck it I laughed. It was funny to me, it was quick and I find that kind of spontaneous wit funny. Simon (and everyone watching) also knows the presenter he made the joke at is comfortable in his sexuality and could handle the comment, and also Simon has repeatedly given platforms to gay contestants over the years. I don't want to live in a world where straight people have to talk to me like my face would crack if I tried to smile, because that's not who I am. I'm comfortable in my sexuality and I appreciate clever or fast humour.
"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the road, and then getting hit by an airplane"  - sarcasm_only

"Ironically like the nativist far-Right, which despises multiculturalism, but benefits from its ideas of difference to scapegoat the other and to promote its own white identity politics; these postmodernists, leftists, feminists and liberals also use multiculturalism, to side with the oppressor, by demanding respect and tolerance for oppression characterised as 'difference', no matter how intolerable."
- Maryam Namazie

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#42
RE: Is this homophobic?
(August 4, 2017 at 2:21 pm)Regina Wrote: "Homophobia" is verbally or physically lashing out at LGB people, or denying us rights. It's nothing more or less than that.
That would be overt violence and discrimination, homophobia can be -much- less than that.

Homophobia exists even when it isn't acted upon.  It's a baseless fear or prejudice against homosexuals.  

In that vein, the answer to the OP Q, in pretty much any example in which someone finds themselves asking the question......is yes.  In that, homosexuality isn't an legitimate issue for anything to anyone..so..if we find it somehow cropping up -as- a perceived issue..then, yeah, it's already circling the drain.  Right up there with the "Is it racist if" - pile of questions.  Yep, it is.  But hey, plenty of the time it;s so mild and inconsequential that it's not worth focusing on, right?  

Like, is it racist/homophobic if my grandaddy won't let a gay black man in his house?  Sure...but who cares, why would any gay black people want to be in my grandaddys house?  Obviously, they don;t know the guy. Is he physically lashing out or denying them rights in doing so? No...but he's still a racist homophobe.
Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#43
RE: Is this homophobic?
(August 4, 2017 at 2:27 pm)Khemikal Wrote: That would be overt violence and discrimination, homophobia can be -much- less than that.

Homophobia exists even when it isn't acted upon.  It's a baseless fear or prejudice against homosexuals.  

In that vein, the answer to the OP Q, in pretty much any example in which someone finds themselves asking the question......is yes.  In that, homosexuality isn't an legitimate issue for anything to anyone..so..if we find it somehow cropping up -as- a perceived issue..then, yeah, it's already circling the drain.  Right up there with the "Is it racist if" - pile of questions.  Yep, it is.  But hey, plenty of the time it;s so mild and inconsequential that it's not worth focusing on, right?  

Like, is it racist/homophobic if my grandaddy won't let a gay black man in his house?  Sure...but who cares, why would any gay black people want to be in my grandaddys house?  
Wink

I strongly disagree

I think what you're discribing is bias and prejudice absolutely, and we can go into whole conversations about whether "learned bias" and prejudice. However, I think there's a distinction between that and outright homophobia. (Although I do think the example you gave at the end certain is outright racism and homophobia)

I've said this probably a million times before, but I think we have to pick our battles and not throw these big fancy words around so lightly. If I walked around constantly nit-picking and finding so many little small things to police as "homophobic.", all it's going to do is turn people off. Firstly the word loses all impact and meaning. Additionally, you get to a point where people realise, fuck it you're just a sad miserable humourless bastard who can't be pleased. That has the reverse impact of what you're trying to achieve, because people stop trying with you. I'd rather be liked and have wider society see me as a normal person they can get along with, even if it means dealing with the odd ignorant comment here and there, than be friendless because nobody wants to spend time with a Debbie Downer they have to constantly tread on eggshells to avoid upsetting.

So no, I'm not interested in policing some light (and frankly funny) humour, or little trivial issues. I'll save "homophobia" for when people start throwing slurs and bricks at us and denying us employment and marriage.
"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the road, and then getting hit by an airplane"  - sarcasm_only

"Ironically like the nativist far-Right, which despises multiculturalism, but benefits from its ideas of difference to scapegoat the other and to promote its own white identity politics; these postmodernists, leftists, feminists and liberals also use multiculturalism, to side with the oppressor, by demanding respect and tolerance for oppression characterised as 'difference', no matter how intolerable."
- Maryam Namazie

Reply
#44
RE: Is this homophobic?
Homophobia -is- bias and prejudice..that;s the definition of it.  Many homophobes, however, manage to contain themselves and not shit on your rights.  It's not about light or funny humor....and it;s only funny until people start throwing bricks, huh, lol?

You might think it;s useful to cut some slack, but I don't see any reason to cut any slack on what people are and what accurately describes them..it's enough to say -"well, you may be a homophobe, but at least your not a fucking asshole. " Honestly, thats the best you can expect from homophobes. They don't really know why they feel the way they do and they're not in control of it. They should, however, be aware of it - or they won;t know that there;s anything they need to not engage in in order to prevent shitting on you and your rights and throwing bricks.

You;re expressing, above, that you;d rather live in a society where homophobes liked you, so you're willing to be nice to homophobes. They're never going to like you, Regina......no matter how well you keep yourself in your place...they're homophobes.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#45
RE: Is this homophobic?
(August 4, 2017 at 2:39 pm)Regina Wrote:
(August 4, 2017 at 2:27 pm)Khemikal Wrote: That would be overt violence and discrimination, homophobia can be -much- less than that.

Homophobia exists even when it isn't acted upon.  It's a baseless fear or prejudice against homosexuals.  

In that vein, the answer to the OP Q, in pretty much any example in which someone finds themselves asking the question......is yes.  In that, homosexuality isn't an legitimate issue for anything to anyone..so..if we find it somehow cropping up -as- a perceived issue..then, yeah, it's already circling the drain.  Right up there with the "Is it racist if" - pile of questions.  Yep, it is.  But hey, plenty of the time it;s so mild and inconsequential that it's not worth focusing on, right?  

Like, is it racist/homophobic if my grandaddy won't let a gay black man in his house?  Sure...but who cares, why would any gay black people want to be in my grandaddys house?  
Wink

I strongly disagree

I think what you're discribing is bias and prejudice absolutely, and we can go into whole conversations about whether "learned bias" and prejudice. However, I think there's a distinction between that and outright homophobia. (Although I do think the example you gave at the end certain is outright racism and homophobia)

I've said this probably a million times before, but I think we have to pick our battles and not throw these big fancy words around so lightly. If I walked around constantly nit-picking and finding so many little small things to police as "homophobic.", all it's going to do is turn people off. Firstly the word loses all impact and meaning. Additionally, you get to a point where people realise, fuck it you're just a sad miserable humourless bastard who can't be pleased. That has the reverse impact of what you're trying to achieve, because people stop trying with you. I'd rather be liked and have wider society see me as a normal person they can get along with, even if it means dealing with the odd ignorant comment here and there, than be friendless because nobody wants to spend time with a Debbie Downer they have to constantly tread on eggshells to avoid upsetting.

So no, I'm not interested in policing some light (and frankly funny) humour, or little trivial issues. I'll save "homophobia" for when people start throwing slurs and bricks at us and denying us employment and marriage.

You might aswell be arguing with steve about the bible being evidence for the bible being true if you're going to argue with someone who just said things are racist/homophobic if someone asks the question if they're racist or homophobic.

It's the same mentality with a different religion.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





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#46
RE: Is this homophobic?
Prepare for an onslought from the usual suspects..who, apparently, find themselves asking the "is this racist/homophobic" question on a near constant basis. See, you don;t actually get points from these people for giving them a pass on their racism or homophobia as being, essentially, harmless most of the time. They really want to be acquitted on all charges - and they're consistently dicks about it.

YMMV, after all...you do make it a point to tell them what they want to hear, so that they might like you. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#47
RE: Is this homophobic?
(August 4, 2017 at 2:54 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Homophobia -is- bias and prejudice..that;s the definition of it.  Many homophobes, however, manage to contain themselves and not shit on your rights.  It's not about light or funny humor....and it;s only funny until people start throwing bricks, huh, lol?    

You might think it;s useful to cut some slack, but I don't see any reason to cut any slack on what people are and what accurately describes them..it's enough to say -"well, you may be a homophobe, but at least your not a fucking asshole. "  Honestly, thats the best you can expect from homophobes.  They don't really know why they feel the way they do and they're not in control of it.  They should, however, be aware of it - or they won;t know that there;s anything they need to not engage in in order to prevent shitting on you and your rights and throwing bricks.

You;re expressing, above, that you;d rather live in a society where homophobes liked you, so you're willing to be nice to homophobes.  They're never going to like you, Regina......no matter how well you keep yourself in your place...they're homophobes.

You have a very (no pun intented) black/white view of the world.

I'm going to tolerate just anything. I've made post after post after post after post after post on this forum, calling out people who I really consider to be anti-gay bigots, and I will continue to do that because that shit still affects me. I'm still a gay man, I'm still very annoyed and frustrated with people who go out of their way to bash people like me, and I'm still not going to be silent when I see real injustice towards gays.

At the same time, I have ability to look at the world and people with some damn nuance, and realise there are complex layers to this issue. There are people out there who simply don't understand homosexuality, because they grew up in a time and place where it was/is less accepted and more taboo. Yes, ultimately that comes from a place of homophobia. However, that doesn't mean that every person who simply doesn't understand gays is an absolute fucking monster, who is closed minded and unwilling to change their views. It also doesn't mean that a mere joke is on the same level as someone genuinely despising you.

Just a few short years ago, I'd say as recently as when I was a kid, it was still more taboo to be gay than it is now and there was still majority opposition to gay marriage. I can guarantee some of these people on this very forum, who are the loudest supporters of gay people now, were probably ignorant of it when they were younger. My Dad was one of those people, he didn't necessarily "get" gays, but when I came out? He tried so hard with me and changed his views, and that means far more to me than someone who gets on their moral high horse because they "got there first" with accepting gays. It shouldn't be a competition of who can be the most morally virtious.
"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the road, and then getting hit by an airplane"  - sarcasm_only

"Ironically like the nativist far-Right, which despises multiculturalism, but benefits from its ideas of difference to scapegoat the other and to promote its own white identity politics; these postmodernists, leftists, feminists and liberals also use multiculturalism, to side with the oppressor, by demanding respect and tolerance for oppression characterised as 'difference', no matter how intolerable."
- Maryam Namazie

Reply
#48
RE: Is this homophobic?
(July 30, 2017 at 12:24 pm)Brain of Wombat Wrote: There's a controversy that has kicked off recently in my local politics about whether an insulting tweet made by a political commentator was simply cruel or deliberately homophobic. Because the politics surrounding it are so polarised, it's impossible to get an objective reaction because everybody has taken sides with their "team". I know what I think about it, and I think I'm being honest with myself, but you can never fully remove your own biases.

I come to you looking for an honest, impartial assessment. 
I'm going to tell you what happened, with all the politics removed, leaving just the core details. 

Here's the story:
Person A is a prominent, high-ranking politician. He was until a couple of years ago married with (adult) children, that is, until he came out as homosexual.
Person B is his adult son, also a prominent politician, in the same political party as his father.

Person B was recently delivering a long, boring televised speech to his party conference. A Blogger, watching the speech, tweeted the following:
Quote:"Person B is the sort of public speaker that makes you wish his dad had embraced his homosexuality sooner."

The Blogger has subsequently been attacked by his political opponents and labelled as "homophobic" for the comment. He argues that, while a deliberately insulting joke, it was in no way homophobic.



Questions
How do you react to that?
Do you think it's funny?
Do you think it's in poor taste?
Do you think that was a homophobic comment? If so, why?



I would really love to hear some impartial feedback on this to help shape my own thinking.


Keeping with habit I'll blurt my opinion out first and then go see what everyone else tells you.

No, it wasn't homophobic.  The humor only relies on the idea that a homosexual living as such (and without medical intervention) will not have produced a son.  No slight toward gays implied in that.
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#49
RE: Is this homophobic?
(August 4, 2017 at 4:05 pm)Regina Wrote: You have a very (no pun intented) black/white view of the world.
Not really, though It doesn't bother me to point out when something is black or white..such as whether or not a person is or isn;t a homophobe regardless of whether opr not they picket their senator to keep gays from getting married.

Quote:I'm going to tolerate just anything. I've made post after post after post after post after post on this forum, calling out people who I really consider to be anti-gay bigots, and I will continue to do that because that shit still affects me. I'm still a gay man, I'm still very annoyed and frustrated with people who go out of their way to bash people like me, and I'm still not going to be silent when I see real injustice towards gays.
Well, all of that injustice -stems- from people bias and prejudice.  Railing against the injustice while giving the underlying cause a pass...or even actively trying to be liked by those same people...I'm not telling you you can't do it or shouldn't do it (you do you)...but, temper your expectations.  You're not going to make someone with a pathological dislaike of you like you on the basis of your good character.  Your character isn't even an issue for them. Wink

Quote:At the same time, I have ability to look at the world and people with some damn nuance, and realise there are complex layers to this issue. There are people out there who simply don't understand homosexuality, because they grew up in a time and place where it was/is less accepted and more taboo. Yes, ultimately that comes from a place of homophobia. However, that doesn't mean that every person who simply doesn't understand gays is an absolute fucking monster, who is closed minded and unwilling to change their views. It also doesn't mean that a mere joke is on the same level as someone genuinely despising you.
An ability common to human beings, though homophobia doesn't seem to be that complicated, honestly.  OFC theyre nopt monsters....even the fuckin nazis weren't monsters.  It doesn't take a monster to do monstrous things.  I;ve said it before I';ll say it again -all- of our worst bigotries are as sweet and familiar as granny and apple pie.  All we have to do to ensure that they remain with us indefinitely, is give them polite deference.

Quote:Just a few short years ago, I'd say as recently as when I was a kid, it was still more taboo to be gay than it is now and there was still majority opposition to gay marriage. I can guarantee some of these people on this very forum, who are the loudest supporters of gay people now, were probably ignorant of it when they were younger. My Dad was one of those people, he didn't necessarily "get" gays, but when I came out? He tried so hard with me and changed his views, and that means far more to me than someone who gets on their moral high horse because they "got there first" with accepting gays. It shouldn't be a competition of who can be the most morally virtious.
Not getting gays and being a homophobe aren't the same thing.  I don't get gays either. Seems like a whole lot of peen to me, and by "a whole lot" I mean, routinely more than my own peen. Sure, you can change the minds of people who don;t get gays (though one wonders what that means.....?).  You aren't going to change the minds of homophobes.  Young racists, die old racists.  Young homophobes.........they do the same thing.

If you really wanted to talk about changing minds, it wouldn;t be an issue of accepting gays, just accepting people...what does being gay have to do with it...and it's not like anyone alive today can claim to have "accepted gays first" or by "accepting gays" and pointing out that a person s a homophobe is climbing on some high horse - the former is as old as being gay and the latter a simple statement of fact....so what on earth are you talking about?

Seems like the sort of friendly fire that homophobes and people who really -would- strip you of your rights have created as a narrative..to me. The "Is this/what is racist/homophobic about that" question strongly correlates with racists and homophobes. They seem to be widely unclear on some things in that periphery. That's not some round condemnation of a specific person or event, it's just a simple observation of a broad group of events and people. I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that you've noticed this as well?

"I just don;t want em in my house, what;s racist about that?"
"I just don;t want em in the bathrooms with me, whats homophobic about that?"

Cmon....gimme some sugar.... Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#50
RE: Is this homophobic?
(August 4, 2017 at 2:54 pm)Khemikal Wrote: You;re expressing, above, that you;d rather live in a society where homophobes liked you, so you're willing to be nice to homophobes.  They're never going to like you, Regina......no matter how well you keep yourself in your place...they're homophobes.

That's pretty harsh. Obviously homophobes aren't going to like a homosexual: that's what the word means. But I think if people like Regina can stand strong to their values and be seen to be high-quality individuals, some homophobes will awaken to the fact that their prejudices were malformed, and change their views. I would say by today's standards, 1980s-era bennyboy would probably be called a homophobe. However, in my rave days, I met a couple gay actors who I thought were cool, and I crashed at their house often enough that questions were asked. A couple dancers who I liked had gay friends hanging around all the time, who I ended up liking a lot. We even had a gay member of parliament in Vancouver in the early 90s, and he was just about the coolest politician anybody knew of.

If those people had been constantly policing the society for homophobes to fight against, mock, or otherwise maintain friction with, I wouldn't have had the chance to change my mind about gay people in general-- if anything, I'm now biased in favor of the gay community on the grounds that gay people are more cultured and more interesting than the average Joe.
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