a new atheist and marriage

[johan]

Apologies for being late to thread. Additional apologies for not bothering to read through the multiple pages of bickering that seem to have ensued.

Although I've been an atheist all my life, I didn't know to put that label on it until just a few years ago. That being said, I've always been a non-religion/non-tradition type person. And all through my early adulthood I never really cared much about marriage. I had my fair share of friends that got married and I gave them all my heartfelt support. I just never really considered it as much of a goal/option for myself.

Then I met Sue. And the moment I met Sue I knew she was like no other person I'd ever met. I knew her and I were formed and matched for each other like no other matches I'd ever seen. In short, I knew immediately this one was different, this one was going to be good, this one was going to change everything for me.

And while Sue will tell you she felt all the same things, she'll also tell you that she was take or leave it on the subject of marriage. She'd found the guy she knew she'd probably spend the rest of her life with and that was good enough for her. To hell with labels. To hell with what other people thought.

But I was not lucky enough to share the same forward thinking. Although i'd never seriously considered marriage to be a goal, the moment I met Sue marriage became a major priority for me.

True, we could have gone on being just an unmarried couple, i.e. boyfriend and girlfriend and that would have been just fine, but here's the problem I had with that. By the time I'd met Sue, I'd had lots of girlfriends in my day. And while I'd genuinely cared for each one in her own particular time, the moment I met Sue I knew she was different. And suddenly having to label her the exact same way I'd labeled everyone who came before her, i.e. as my girlfriend, was now somehow insulting. And I could not wait to fix that. Girlfriends are great, but they're inherently temporary. Sue was no girlfriend and it was important to me that everyone understood that.

So we got married. It had nothing to do with god. It had nothing to do with the tax advantage (though they don't exactly suck). It had everything to do with it being imperative to me that Sue was not lumped into the conga line of imperfect girlfriends which preceded her. It was important to me to have a label which told the world immediately in no uncertain terms, this one is different, this one is the one.

God can go fuck himself. I got married because she was the one that mattered.

[Catholic_Lady]

Nothing wrong with stay at home mom or stay at home dad. Raising children, taking care of the home, being in charge of the family meals, etc, is by no means "inferior" to any other job. And if both parents work outside the home, that's fine too. It's all about what works best for each family in particular. This shouldn't have to be said.

[Astonished]

Being a stay at home mom/wife does not make someone inferior to the person who works outside the home. That's your own prejudiced opinion. Each couple is free to do what works for them and what they are comfortable with. There is no objective right or wrong here.

C_L, I think you'd have to admit that some religions do impose duties, positions and limit choices, particularly on females in the marriage. I think you'd also have to admit that some religions enforce marriage within the religion, particularly on females, or they are basically shunned.

Yes, that's part of it. Also notice how I specified someone who was 'brainwashed' into accepting those roles, not someone choosing them freely of their own volition in a completely informed consent situation with no social conditioning to favor that and not even entertain the other perspective. I'd be perfectly fine being a stay at home dad, as long as my partner was a good enough breadwinner that we'd all be comfortable, so why would I denigrate a woman who wants to do the same thing (provided it's her completely free choice, which, given indoctrination and religious upbringing being so ubiquitous, probably isn't the exact situation most of the time)? Even if you're a pretty fair-weather believer, those early lessons tend to stick around, and will affect you more than you think, so it's dubious that it has no effect on major decisions later on down the line.

[Dropship]

Nothing wrong with stay at home mom or stay at home dad. Raising children, taking care of the home, being in charge of the family meals, etc, is by no means "inferior" to any other job. And if both parents work outside the home, that's fine too. It's all about what works best for each family in particular. This shouldn't have to be said.

Right, a 9-year-old kid called Colin and his younger brother at junior school were real terrors, always going down the shops to shoplift after school because they couldn't bear to go back to their empty house, as both their parents worked and didn't get home for another 3 hours.
Sometimes the kids would invite us back to their house for company after school and I remember how absolutely cold and awful and dead their house was without a mum in it.
My mother never went out to work and was always there for me and my sister when we got home from school, God bless her (sniffle)..

[Brian37]

Nothing wrong with stay at home mom or stay at home dad. Raising children, taking care of the home, being in charge of the family meals, etc, is by no means "inferior" to any other job. And if both parents work outside the home, that's fine too. It's all about what works best for each family in particular. This shouldn't have to be said.

Right, a 9-year-old kid called Colin and his younger brother at junior school were real terrors, always going down the shops to shoplift after school because they couldn't bear to go back to their empty house, as both their parents worked and didn't get home for another 3 hours.
Sometimes the kids would invite us back to their house for company after school and I remember how absolutely cold and awful and dead their house was without a mum in it.
My mother never went out to work and was always there for me and my sister when we got home from school, God bless her (sniffle)..

Females are quite capable of leading and being the primary bread winner. My mother raised me all by herself after my adoptive father's death in 81. But guess what, that didn't prevent me from ditching my former Christianity, nor did it make her a bad parent because I did. The majority of our 7 billion population hold a religious club label, but not because any of them are required for life to exist, but because that is merely what humans hand down to their children.

I am sorry it bothers you that others are not buying your claims. But you reject all other religions besides yours. The only difference between you and an atheist is that we reject one more club than you do. Try understanding what causes you to reject all clubs besides yours and then maybe you can understand why we reject your club and deity as well.

[Dropship]

..you reject all other religions besides yours..

The word "religion" is oldfashioned mate..
Jesus was simply an alien visitor-"I am not of this world ....though you do not believe me, believe the miracles.....i'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (John 8:23,John 10:38,Matt 13:35)
so wouldn't it be a bit unscientific and illogical not to hear him out?
Hey Spock will you listen to him?

"Affirmative, I'm all ears"..

[Brian37]

..you reject all other religions besides yours..

The word "religion" is oldfashioned mate..
Jesus was simply an alien visitor-"I am not of this world ....though you do not believe me, believe the miracles.....i'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (John 8:23,John 10:38,Matt 13:35)
so wouldn't it be a bit unscientific and illogical not to hear him out?
Hey Spock will you listen to him?

"Affirmative, I'm all ears"..

Um no, Jesus was a fictional character, just like Spock was, difference is Si fi fans accept this but you don't about your own fiction.

Si fi fans also hate me for pointing out that Star Trek was also just a show. So I am not treating you any different than any other person with a fantastic claim. I also do not like it when their fans try to claim Roddenberry was some sort of inventor or scientist. The show was certainly fantastic for portraying issues of pluralism and diplomacy and conflict only as a last resort, but it did not invent anything or predict anything. It also was not a science lab anymore than the bible can be claimed to be predictive. Fiction is still fiction. Most Star Trek fans accept it as fiction, but even they have a few nuts very small minority that try to paint that show as more than just a mere show.

Try again.

[Catholic_Lady]

I wouldn't bother responding the dropping. He's clearly a poe lol.

[Brian37]

I wouldn't bother responding the dropping. He's clearly a poe lol.

CL you absolutely know I like you. But when one religious person points at another to me it is like watching a Star Trek fan argue with a Star Wars fan.

"I am not like the others" is what every sect says while pointing at the other, the left does it and the right does it. I'd ask both you and Drop what makes either of you think you got it right. 

Let me clue you in on something. Not liking how the other interprets a holy writing does not change the fact it is the same source you both use to come to completely different conclusions. Both of you hold the position that the Christian God is the one true real god, and both of you hold the position that Jesus was the son of this god. That does not change because you cant agree on the interpretation of the same holy writing.

I think you can be mature enough to not look at this as a threat to your rights. I know you have been here for years almost as long as I have. Don't look at this post as an attack on you personally, but a challenge to you and even Drop to consider things you might not have considered before.

I am glad you don't reflect any extreme far right nuttiness, but that still does not mean the books change or that you both value the same heros and book.

[Catholic_Lady]

I just don't think he is being serius about his account and persona here. I think he's trolling and this is a poe account.