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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 9:01 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2017 at 9:02 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 16, 2017 at 7:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (August 16, 2017 at 3:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Honestly, Neo, if BLM spray painted that shit on your face while you were sleeping..I;d be on their side, not yours.
I would be on your side if anyone spray painted you in the face while you were asleep, Khem, even after all the hurtful things you have said to me, including this.
That probably has something to do with whatever broke your virtue recognition, you realize? You'd shed a tear for me, and the poor old statue, and the pathetic neo-nazis and all their alt-right buddies the big bad left is oppressing..... but not for some adulterous darky or the faceless mass of them who continue to be gunned down as though cops were night riders chasing escaped plantation hands.
What is it you hoped to achieve with the signalling above? To establish that you're a kinder, gentler white supremacist sympathizer?
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 9:02 am
(August 17, 2017 at 12:08 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: I think I've mentioned my preferred solution on the Charlottesville thread: put up a plaque on the base of the statue acknowledging both his accomplishments and his faults, encouraging a less black-and-white view of history than most people (whether pro-statue or anti-statue) seem willing to acknowledge. The contradiction between fighting for liberty but still owning hundreds of slaves, showing the contradictions inherent in America's historic ideas of liberty.
And given his reference to Harold Washington, maybe there might be some space for a Harold Washington statue too.
Um no, the only place South statues belong is in the context of a museum of what not to do to your fellow humans. Again, you are FAILING to take into account the mindset of those who built them and those who erected them. They were not erected as history lessons but as monuments of value of those men.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 9:14 am
And yet the people who built them are no longer around, and thanks to this, the meaning of said statues is free to be changed.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 9:18 am
I thought Jim Jefferies said it well on his show.
Germany has zero statues of Hitler. It's odd how their 'history' didn't get lost.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 9:32 am
Remember, after the Civil War ended, the Union gave a blanket pardon to those who actually fought against it. At the end of the war, there was a sort of respect for the losing party that simply did not exist at the end of WW2, except maybe Rommel.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 9:32 am
(August 17, 2017 at 9:14 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: And yet the people who built them are no longer around, and thanks to this, the meaning of said statues is free to be changed.
No, the South fought to keep slavery, that is not subject to change.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 10:15 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2017 at 10:18 am by Rev. Rye.)
(August 17, 2017 at 9:32 am)Brian37 Wrote: (August 17, 2017 at 9:14 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: And yet the people who built them are no longer around, and thanks to this, the meaning of said statues is free to be changed.
No, the South fought to keep slavery, that is not subject to change.
Did I say the reasons for the war change with time? Honestly, the ideology you've presented in these posts is a big example of the problem I despise: a Manichean view of history, the assumption of clear-cut villains and heroes fighting over good and evil. The problem is that the world doesn't work like that, especially when it comes to politics, and even though the Civil War was fought with the express purpose of keeping slavery alive, this doesn't necessarily mean everyone who fought was working for that express purpose (I've also mentioned a major disconnect between why many Confederate soldiers, up to and including Lee, fought and why the Confederacy split off in the first place), and the assumption that they must is ultimately one facet of a fundamentally dangerous understanding of the world, one that isn't really that different from those protesters who sent Charlottesville into a state of emergency. It's just that you see him as a villain, they see him as a hero, and I see someone whose legacy is very complicated and interesting to suss out.
Some historical person did something bad? Destroy them! Nothing of value can be gained from them! Honestly, if we worked from this example, ultimately, the past would be nothing but a series of evil people doing deeds for evil reasons.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 10:32 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2017 at 10:35 am by Anomalocaris.)
(August 17, 2017 at 9:01 am)Khemikal Wrote: (August 16, 2017 at 7:19 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: I would be on your side if anyone spray painted you in the face while you were asleep, Khem, even after all the hurtful things you have said to me, including this.
That probably has something to do with whatever broke your virtue recognition, you realize? You'd shed a tear for me, and the poor old statue, and the pathetic neo-nazis and all their alt-right buddies the big bad left is oppressing..... but not for some adulterous darky or the faceless mass of them who continue to be gunned down as though cops were night riders chasing escaped plantation hands.
What is it you hoped to achieve with the signalling above? To establish that you're a kinder, gentler white supremacist sympathizer?
He probably figured you were white, or at worst a house negro of the sort who would say "thank you massa" if shot for no good reason by a white policeman other than being black.
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 10:34 am
(August 17, 2017 at 9:32 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: Remember, after the Civil War ended, the Union gave a blanket pardon to those who actually fought against it. At the end of the war, there was a sort of respect for the losing party that simply did not exist at the end of WW2, except maybe Rommel.
What does this have to do with fucking statues that glorify men who fought to keep slaves? When we defeated Germany we didn't murder every single soldier much less their entire population. They still DONT have statues of Hitler now. When we defeated Japan, we also did not murder their entire population. So when you say the North pardoned individuals in the South that still does not mean we need to glorify those who fought to keep slavery. Forgiveness does not constitute condoning or glorifying.
It still boils down to, SLAVERY IS WRONG!
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RE: Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America
August 17, 2017 at 10:35 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2017 at 10:38 am by Fake Messiah.)
(August 16, 2017 at 2:57 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: ![[Image: 5wK7csXE?format=jpg&name=600x314]](https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/897846959456657408/5wK7csXE?format=jpg&name=600x314)
I sure these "protesters" will have their defenders too. Because, you know,...
Well you must understand there is a difference between vandalisation and organized political terrorism like KKK. The Columbus statue vandalisation that you paste is done by somebody anonymous it can be from BLM but it doesn't have to be and BLM did not embrace it. Can you point me where this is part of BLM ideology? If someone in the middle of the night drew a Latin cross on an orthodox church with a message that they should all be hanged would you think this was the message from Catholic church to orthodox? Because this is what happened in my neighborhood few years ago.
On the other hand KKK and other Nazis deliberate preach hate, march around with symbols of enemies of US and see Lee's statue as a symbol that South will rise again as well, as causes that he fought for. And what did Lee fought for? He fought for overthrowing president and government of US. Would you not define that kind of a person today as a terrorist? What is there to celebrate and admire about him? Was he brave? Were people that drove an airplane into WTC brave and we should perhaps raise statue to them?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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