Leftists Purging History or Al Queda in America

[Ravenshire]

The statues are going down.  They can be removed in one piece but they will be removed.

They don't have to go down, they just have to stop be supported by taxpayers' dollars.

I wouldn't even mind if they put them in a civil war museum payed for by taxpayer dollars. As long as they go in the clearly marked "Losing Side Participation Trophies" wing.

[Amarok]

I'm skeptical that these statues were erected to honor the post-defeat entreaties for unification, myself.

Especially when there were massive spikes in the erection of these statues during Jim Crow in the early 1900's and during the civil unrest previous to the civil rights movements.

Wow there trying that chestnut . The desperation is real

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Especially when there were massive spikes in the erection of these statues during Jim Crow in the early 1900's and during the civil unrest previous to the civil rights movements.

Wow there trying that chestnut . The desperation is real

It's also interesting the massive jump in statues being erected at schools . Hmm.. I wonder why that would be?

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm skeptical that these statues were erected to honor the post-defeat entreaties for unification, myself.

Especially when there were massive spikes in the erection of these statues during Jim Crow in the early 1900's and during the civil unrest previous to the civil rights movements.

Exactly my point. The historical context of their emplacement gives a clue to the intentions behind them.

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Especially when there were massive spikes in the erection of these statues during Jim Crow in the early 1900's and during the civil unrest previous to the civil rights movements.

Wow there trying that chestnut . The desperation is real

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Wow there trying that chestnut . The desperation is real

It's also interesting the massive jump in statues being erected at schools . Hmm.. I wonder why that would be?

... not to mention universities when all those goddamned hippies were smoking dope and cavortin' with the wrong race.

[Amarok]

I don't even think that is necessary (re-naming).  I'm not going to pretend to know, the motivations of those who put up the statues (if it was for white supremacy; I don't think that Lee or Jackson was a very good choice given the history of the matter).  However, even if it was was originally racially motivated, I think that with both men, it could be used to focus on the good that they stood for, rather than only fighting for the south (especially Lee and his promotion of unification after the war).  Neither seem to be all about (or a symbol) for slavery and oppression from what I have read on them.

On the matter, I'm kind of neutral.   These statues didn't bother me a year ago, and they don't bother me today.  I think that if the city or location that owns them, wants to take them down, and it is done through proper procedures; I have no problem with that.  If it is mobs tearing down or defacing statues because they don't like them; I think that is a different matter all together (more akin to the reference in the OP).  I think that a rational case can be made for both sides and the proper people may make their decision from there.  However when people won't even listen, or start trying to strong-arm politicians and such by calling anyone who disagrees a racist (unjustly);  I do start leaning away from that side and supporting the other rather quickly.

There is that typical theist narcissism once again. Nobody gives a fuck that it doesn't bother you personally. We are still talking about the defense of a horrible institution, that of slavery, and that should bother any empathetic thinking human being. The fact that you say it doesn't bother you says more about you than it does to those who rightfully object to making heros out of slave owners. Those statues were not mere history lessons, they were put up to honor those who fought to keep slavery. THAT is the part you keep missing.

Indeed there goes any credibility Road had . This is not a rational discussion of two sides. This is the easiest most non controversial idea ever. And pushing civic leaders to pull there heads out. Grow some balls . And stop pandering to bigots should be also. Unless you have an agenda and whine when people point it out.

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But the racists greatest friend is obfuscation, Delay , ambiguity, and moderation

As MLK put


"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate,

• who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice;
  
  
  
• who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;
  
  
  
• who constantly says: 'I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action';
  
  
  
• who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom;
  
  
  
• who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a 'more convenient season.'
  

Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr

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This is not a time for playing games with morons . It's time to crack out the hammers.




Man smashing a statue of Saddam

[rexbeccarox]

There is that typical theist narcissism once again. Nobody gives a fuck that it doesn't bother you personally. We are still talking about the defense of a horrible institution, that of slavery, and that should bother any empathetic thinking human being. The fact that you say it doesn't bother you says more about you than it does to those who rightfully object to making heros out of slave owners. Those statues were not mere history lessons, they were put up to honor those who fought to keep slavery. THAT is the part you keep missing.

See this is what I mean.... rather than making your case, and letting that stand for what it's worth.   You start out by focusing on the person, and name calling.  Then you try to make out like I'm defending slavery (which couldn't be further from the truth).  As I said, I'm open to hearing from both sides.  And if the only reason for, is to honor those who fought to keep slavery, then I think that is a fast sinking ship.  But as I mentioned, if it is only about slavery and oppression of black people, then I think these where poor choices.  But this type of crap that you are trying to pull here only weakens the point you are trying to make, it doesn't aid it.

(bold mine)

The bold was the point. The fact that you only see it as "focusing on the person, and name-calling" could definitely be described as a sub-point, though.

[RoadRunner79]

See this is what I mean.... rather than making your case, and letting that stand for what it's worth.   You start out by focusing on the person, and name calling.  Then you try to make out like I'm defending slavery (which couldn't be further from the truth).  As I said, I'm open to hearing from both sides.  And if the only reason for, is to honor those who fought to keep slavery, then I think that is a fast sinking ship.  But as I mentioned, if it is only about slavery and oppression of black people, then I think these where poor choices.  But this type of crap that you are trying to pull here only weakens the point you are trying to make, it doesn't aid it.

(bold mine)

The bold was the point. The fact that you only see it as "focusing on the person, and name-calling" could definitely be described as a sub-point, though.

I'd agree he made some statements, which I think could have some backing. However I think the other things only serve at best to distract, and at worst, less honerable motives. I also don't think that for most people in current times they are advocating slavery, or even necessarily racism, with these statues. Some may be, and that is to be taken into consideration I have known some racist people, and don't think any where advocating or glorifying slavery. I also don't think it is all about racism for many either. I just don't think that making anyone who questions him out as a racist is very useful, and may work against those who do.

[Amarok]

Typical hand waving and diversion  . Ironic that he's whining about  name calling as a distraction . We have made our points the other side sucks at countering them. But ever more the losing side will demand more talking .

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(Statue of Stalin being blown up ) Clearly  Al Queda in Poland because the Russian soldiers were not fighting for Stalin . And some of the groups he oppressed fought for him. And clearly he's a cultural part of Russia or that's what Putin and almost half of Russians will say

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...tions.html

[Amarok]

(Stalin statue being taken apart )

How dare they. The arrogance of depriving future generation of cultural artifacts ......   Terrorists..

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People clearly celebrating their pride in "their heritage"

[A Theist]

Or maybe they should just re-name statues like it's sometimes done. For instance in Swiss town of Bern there is a statue called Kindlifresserbrunnen which was erected back in 16th century and represents a Jew eating Catholic children. But as time passed and those history hatin' Antifa guys came along there was a sudden pressure to remove it, so people just started referring to it as an Ogre, not a Jew.

So people could also re-name Lee and Stonewall Jackson statues as Cowboys. "But what about their Southern uniform?" So what? Kindlifresserbrunnen wears Jewish hat and yet people call it Ogre.

I don't even think that is necessary (re-naming). I'm not going to pretend to know, the motivations of those who put up the statues (if it was for white supremacy; I don't think that Lee or Jackson was a very good choice given the history of the matter). However, even if it was was originally racially motivated, I think that with both men, it could be used to focus on the good that they stood for, rather than only fighting for the south (especially Lee and his promotion of unification after the war). Neither seem to be all about (or a symbol) for slavery and oppression from what I have read on them.

On the matter, I'm kind of neutral. These statues didn't bother me a year ago, and they don't bother me today. I think that if the city or location that owns them, wants to take them down, and it is done through proper procedures; I have no problem with that. If it is mobs tearing down or defacing statues because they don't like them; I think that is a different matter all together (more akin to the reference in the OP). I think that a rational case can be made for both sides and the proper people may make their decision from there. However when people won't even listen, or start trying to strong-arm politicians and such by calling anyone who disagrees a racist (unjustly); I do start leaning away from that side and supporting the other rather quickly.

You're probably finding out now that rationality and discussion escapes most of the leftist members here. They're not interested in discussing anything they disagree with beyond throwing their childish temper tantrums and engaging in playground name calling. They're stupid ass morons. Most of which who are probably sheltered lazy ass kids who would rather play computer games all day rather than getting out working at an actual job. I doubt very much that most these puss ass little fucks would be as bold in person as they are hiding behind the security of their computer screens. So why be polite with them and expect to have any kind of decent conversation with sheltered Mama's boys?

[GUBU]

So Adolf can't defend his nonsense (big surprise ) And instead of manning up and admitting he's wrong . Attacks the people who point it out . And raves about Stalinist conspiracies.

Which in the context of this thread is hilarious



Two men destroying Stalin statue

THEY SHOULDN'T DO THAT THAT IS VANDALISM!

Meanwhile in right wing La La land, keep monuments to defending 400 years of brutal slavery. MEH, that's "heritage".


Here is the bullshit part our far right dont get. If preserving history is what you want, the only thing we object to is leaving up the context of treating them as good and moral and heros, because slave owners were not good, moral or heros.

A have said countless times, if you put them in Museums in the context of "Don't own other humans", then that serves as a valid reminder of what not to do to other humans.

There's a difference between Auschwitz and a statue of Rob Lee. Auschwitz is preserved in memory of the victims and in an effort to ensure something similar never hsppens. They wish confrderate staues be preserved in the hopes of the evils the likes of Lee were defending will return.

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"Communism was just a red herring." Tim Currey, "Clue".

Thought it was a red hammer and sickle.

Hammer & sickle were goldish.