The Paradox of tolerance and current events

[bennyboy]

So, I'm sure everyone here who's had conversations lately about current events in America, especially in regards to politics, has seen some variation of this.  Leftists, who usually get the reputation as being all about tolerance, are reacting with violence and aggression against right wing protesters or their causes.  The line is simple: "So much for the tolerant left."  

For me, it brings to mind Karl Popper and the paradox of tolerance.  His claim was that a universally tolerant society will ultimately lead to the destruction of tolerance in that tolerating intollerance will lead to the intollerant eliminating toleration.  Therefore, he argued, a free, open society should not tolerate intollerance.

And I can't help but think he was right.  Germany, back in the 20's and early 30's tolerated national socialism and let that idea into the free marketplace of ideas.  The end result is that this group gained power and had no interest in tolerating Jews, gays, intellectuals or differing political ideologies.  

Now we have people showing up for political protests, flying nazi flags and proudly wearing kkk robes and I'm left here wondering, when do we need to apply this idea?  When do we get to stand up and tell the intollerant "No more"?

They feel the same way.  They've watched their hometowns change, they've watched their religious beliefs get marginalized (at least from their perspective).  But they are not us, and we don't need to care too much about that.  Their traditions and world views are not ours, and we are under no compulsion to foster them.

I don't believe in a moral view.  We shouldn't shut down nazis because THEY are intolerant, and we're champions of free speech.  That's clearly an oxymoron.

The reason to shut them down is that new ideas have taken root, the old ideas are no longer acceptable, and the social world is in a state of flux.  Let those fuckers hide in the closet.  Let them fear to be discovered for the freaks that they are.  Isolate them with strong social stigma and let them in their isolation wonder whether there's anyone else who thinks as they do.

In short-- drop the moral arguments, step up and claim the fucking prize already.  A new day is dawning, and being on the right side means not having to justify your actions.

[downbeatplumb]

Karl Popper....he argued a free, open society should not tolerate intollerance...

Hmm so if there's a "Paedophile Pride" march one day, is he saying we should tolerate it or not?

Are you conflating paedophilia with being gay or is there a more subtle message you are trying to convey?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Karl Popper. Excellent read on the subject and a stance (sometimes you have to be intolerant of intolerance) I agree with.

[Amarok]

So, I'm sure everyone here who's had conversations lately about current events in America, especially in regards to politics, has seen some variation of this.  Leftists, who usually get the reputation as being all about tolerance, are reacting with violence and aggression against right wing protesters or their causes.  The line is simple: "So much for the tolerant left."  

For me, it brings to mind Karl Popper and the paradox of tolerance.  His claim was that a universally tolerant society will ultimately lead to the destruction of tolerance in that tolerating intollerance will lead to the intollerant eliminating toleration.  Therefore, he argued, a free, open society should not tolerate intollerance.

And I can't help but think he was right.  Germany, back in the 20's and early 30's tolerated national socialism and let that idea into the free marketplace of ideas.  The end result is that this group gained power and had no interest in tolerating Jews, gays, intellectuals or differing political ideologies.  

Now we have people showing up for political protests, flying nazi flags and proudly wearing kkk robes and I'm left here wondering, when do we need to apply this idea?  When do we get to stand up and tell the intollerant "No more"?

We don't have too . Nazi's and there Alt right allies get no tolerance get no consideration . They get a fist to the face and nothing else.

[Minimalist]

There is NAMBLA if you have not heard of them. But they are just as much sickos as the KKK and American Nazis.

I'm sure the WLB thinks they are "fine people."

[Thumpalumpacus]

If you mean we give bigots and racists a heaping dose of shame and jail the ones that violate the law, I agree wholeheartedly. I think shaming  would be most effective by those on the right shaming the right wing bigots.

Agreed -- no critique hurts more than the one coming from the back.

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Karl Popper. Excellent read on the subject and a stance (sometimes you have to be intolerant of intolerance) I agree with.

On a personal level, absolutely.

[The Industrial Atheist]

If you mean we give bigots and racists a heaping dose of shame and jail the ones that violate the law, I agree wholeheartedly. I think shaming  would be most effective by those on the right shaming the right wing bigots.

Agreed -- no critique hurts more than the one coming from the back.

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And if people they look up to enough, criticize them enough, maybe a few could be reformed.
Not many though, probably.