Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 5, 2024, 1:07 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Very short version of the long argument.
#1
Very short version of the long argument.
If we know to some degree something about the highest possible goodness there is a connection to it.
If there is a connection to it, it exists.
We do know something about the highest possible goodness.
Therefore there is a connection it.
Therefore it exists.


The disputable premise might be we know something about it but even atheists argue that God who allows suffering without benign purpose cannot be ultimate good. And they argue by some knowledge of the ultimate good to assert it cannot exist. At the end, no true knowledge of a transcendent goodness beyond our limits can be know without a connection! And if there is a connection than just as we exist on one hand what we are connected to exists as well!


If you wish to see elaboration to each premise, see the long but worth it thread.
Reply
#2
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
(September 11, 2017 at 8:17 am)MysticKnight Wrote: If we know to some degree something about the highest possible goodness there is a connection to it.
If there is a connection to it, it exists.
We do know something about the highest possible goodness.

This is where your argument fails. We do not know anything about any highest possible goodness yet alone that one even exists. Try defining what a highest possible goodness even is, which is the first necessary step to determining if it exists because you need to know what you are looking for.
Reply
#3
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
We can know something about an abstract idea or concept without an actual instance of it having to exist. Perfect circles for example.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

Reply
#4
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
(September 11, 2017 at 8:25 am)Alex K Wrote: We can know something about an abstract idea or concept without an actual instance of it having to exist. Perfect circles for example.

That is true. Nothing to do with my argument, however, since I never said: "we cannot know anything about anything without it actually existing".


@Mathilda:

Hence, I talked about his name, in the other thread. That which defines and reminds us of God.
Reply
#5
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
There is no highest possible goodness, it is fantasy.

Very short argument.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply
#6
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
(September 11, 2017 at 8:33 am)mh.brewer Wrote: There is no highest possible goodness, it is fantasy.

Very short argument.

Denying the conclusion in an argument is a sign that person has nothing to say regarding the actual argument.
Reply
#7
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
(September 11, 2017 at 8:35 am)MysticKnight Wrote:
(September 11, 2017 at 8:33 am)mh.brewer Wrote: There is no highest possible goodness, it is fantasy.

Very short argument.

Denying the conclusion in an argument is a sign that person has nothing to say regarding the actual argument.

Your first premise was crap and not a basis for an argument/proof.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
Reply
#8
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
Here's the cognitive flip:

1) People have feelings about things. They call the feelings they like "good."
2) People extend feelings into systems of thoughts. They now have ideas they call "good."
3) People imagine goodness to be a property of feelings, thoughts or things.
4) People say, "There must be a perfect feeling / thought / thing," so when they have the feelings and ideas already mentioned, they feel they are coming "into contact" with something which has the property of goodness.

Goodness is NOT in fact a property of things, except in our subjective evaluations of them. To know goodness, know yourself. There's nothing to connect to, reach out to, discover, adhere to, conform to, obey, or share your loot with. "Good" is ultimately always just going to be a word that means "what I like."
Reply
#9
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
(September 11, 2017 at 8:37 am)mh.brewer Wrote:
(September 11, 2017 at 8:35 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Denying the conclusion in an argument is a sign that person has nothing to say regarding the actual argument.

Your first premise was crap and not a basis for an argument/proof.

So we can know something about ultimate goodness (whatever it is) without a connection to it?

(September 11, 2017 at 8:39 am)bennyboy Wrote: Goodness is NOT in fact a property of things, except in our subjective evaluations of them.  To know goodness, know yourself. 

Sir, I see a contradiction between the 1st sentence and the 2nd. Do I need to elaborate?
Reply
#10
RE: Very short version of the long argument.
Well, it was indeed short. 
Good on you for that. Smile

Now, if you could just manage to demonstrate that what you and these supposed "messengers" know, is in fact, TRUE and CORRECT....then you'd actually be getting somewhere.
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Why the vision argument is a very good one! Mystic 72 9572 April 22, 2018 at 12:11 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  (LONG) "I Don't Know" as a Good Answer in Ethics vulcanlogician 69 11436 November 27, 2017 at 1:10 am
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  A good argument for God's existence (long but worth it) Mystic 179 37285 October 26, 2017 at 1:51 pm
Last Post: Crossless2.0
  Short essay on dualism, idealism, & materialism as concerns Q: What is a table? Mudhammam 28 5521 February 27, 2017 at 3:02 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
Question How does one respond to this argument?It's long but an interesting read. Thanks :) fruyian 44 8253 May 19, 2016 at 5:08 pm
Last Post: SteveII
  Trolley problem: 2035 version JuliaL 11 2765 May 27, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Long term Nihilists CapnAwesome 41 8213 April 26, 2015 at 1:31 pm
Last Post: Hatshepsut
  Science: A Religion? (long post) ManMachine 42 6987 September 15, 2014 at 10:52 am
Last Post: Chas
Lightbulb Pascal's Wager (the new version) Muslim Scholar 153 41606 March 12, 2013 at 1:27 am
Last Post: KichigaiNeko
  life is too short for me ! Memz 63 22832 April 26, 2012 at 3:36 am
Last Post: simplexity



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)