Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 11:21 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Enlightened rants...
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 16, 2017 at 12:43 am)drfuzzy Wrote: Yeah, there is that "don't belittle a single verse" line.  Honor the "word of gawd".  Ignore the fact that it is ignorant, tribal, xenophobic, misogynistic, and simply evil.  Put on those f*cking rose-colored glasses and worship the BOOK, infidel, or die!!   Yeah, the xtian funditards do this with the Bible too.  Y'all need more books.  Science and logic would be a good start.

It's the fastest option to convince others; fear tactics has its way in making almost everything agree  and subdue.
Many religions just fail to convince; even in my religion many use hell as the preferred convincing tactic.

"The Sultan with the bag of gold on the right hand, and sword on the left hand".
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
When I hear 2 muslims arguing over Allah, I make it a habbit to stand 100 feet away!

Big Grin
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
And I thought H. P. Lovecraft's style of being paid by the word made him excessively repetitive and verbose!!
Yikes!
The guys who wrote MK's book were grand masters next to Lovecraft!

A wall of text that says next to nothing! Astonishing!
Truly a feat worthy of the useless priestly caste.
- How to perpetuate the status of this caste, keeping them doing next to nothing?...
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 16, 2017 at 4:14 am)pocaracas Wrote: And I thought H. P. Lovecraft's style of being paid by the word made him excessively repetitive and verbose!!
Yikes!
The guys who wrote MK's book were grand masters next to Lovecraft!

A wall of text that says next to nothing! Astonishing!
Truly a feat worthy of the useless priestly caste.
- How to perpetuate the status of this caste, keeping them doing next to nothing?...

There is a very effective tactic used to make a bird out of a fish:
"Turn the single word into so many; to give yourself space choosing whatever from it".

In other words; if you don't like a certain message because it doesn't say what you want; extend its size to enormous levels to say what you want; make it say what you want.

That's what the Hadith is in Islam; it's the way out for many people, wanting the Quran to say what they want; turning the bird into a fish.

Take this example: stoning women to death doesn't exist the whole Quran. But, you'll find it in the Hadith:

http://www.hadithcollection.com/

The link contains Sunni-accepted Hadith only. Look how massive that site is.
Compared to the Quran (which is 600 pages only); you can literally see that 100 years after the appearance of the Quran; people turned the 600 pages into thousands; to give themselves the space they need to turn around the main book.

Gymnastics require a good amount of space.

MK believes in Shiite Hadiths; a different sect that composes 10% of the total population of Muslims. But don't think that's different; just another face for the same coin: 90% of Muslims believe in the same method of "go around the Quranic verses, and advocate thousands of pages called "the Hadith" ".

To be a respected Muslim in both Sunni or Shiite societies, you must advocate the Hadith; too.

The Hadith books are so big, you can fetch things allowing pedophilia, mass killing..etc. Just remove the Hadith altogether ; and you'll see a very different Islam.

Personally; I don't believe in Hadiths.
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
Hadiths are messy in that there is a lot of falsehood in them but still, they are needed to understand Quran. My approach is I use hadiths to gain insight into Quran, and whatever I see in Quran, I believe and what I don't see, I don't believe but neither deny, and what I know Quran rejects I reject.

The thing Moses was also according to Quran revealed a book that everything pertaining to guidance of humanity explained, and what a guidance and leader to humanity, but still, right away, he prayed and realized what people still don't realize today, he needed a helping authority from God to make people understand his words 'to understand my word'. This according to Quran is not due to the inability of Moses due to his own capacity, but like Mohammad constriction with his breast is due to what people say which was giving into massive propaganda as opposed to being sincere to the truth and obeying it. So it was the circumstances that really put a knot on Moses tongue despite being sent with a revelation that explains all things, he realized the need of Aaron, and Aaron represents succession, that is why in other places it emphasizes on the Leaders who succeeded Moses, the way/course that guide by the truth, the Twelve Captains, and Twelve ways and twelve branches.

Doing away with hadiths does away with the whole talk of Aaron in Quran as if not important and doing away with succession does away with too many verses in Quran as if not important, and doing away with the family of Mohammad does away with all talk about divinely chosen families in the past.

I showed verses of what a person who acquired knowledge all from the book was able to do, so we cannot limit the knowledge of the book to our low level of understanding.
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 17, 2017 at 9:28 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Doing away with hadiths does away with the whole talk of Aaron in Quran as if not important and doing away with succession does away with too many verses in Quran as if not important, and doing away with the family of Mohammad does away with all talk about divinely chosen families in the past.

Divinely chosen families... come on, man. Use your brain!

Divinely chosen families?!?!
Let me guess - those families came out claiming they had been divinely chosen, right? RIGHT?!
A bit self-serving, wouldn't you say?

What could go wrong with such a claim?
It's not like god will punish them, huh?
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 17, 2017 at 9:36 am)pocaracas Wrote:
(October 17, 2017 at 9:28 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Doing away with hadiths does away with the whole talk of Aaron in Quran as if not important and doing away with succession does away with too many verses in Quran as if not important, and doing away with the family of Mohammad does away with all talk about divinely chosen families in the past.

Divinely chosen families... come on, man. Use your brain!

Divinely chosen families?!?!
Let me guess - those families came out claiming they had been divinely chosen, right? RIGHT?!
A bit self-serving, wouldn't you say?

What could go wrong with such a claim?
It's not like god will punish them, huh?

There is a whole wisdom to this in Quran.

It's a tautology, that chosen ones that succeed each other in the divine mission of teaching a people after the founder, are closest to their founder and each other regardless of blood ties. But God due to them being spiritual closest, also in his wisdom, makes them biologically somehow related to each other.

And one reason is that if a follower of Mohammad or Abraham is more pious than a blood relative of theirs, the pious one due to their station with God and humanity, would be closer to them.

This is not true of normal humans. I would consider my parents closer to me, than more pious adults. Or my brothers closer to me, then more pious friends.

Family relationship, in God's book, some are closer to each other. And the closest to each other are the chosen ones who are partners in each others affair of guiding and leading and navigating humanity and manifesting God's Glory and Beauty.

It's a tautology, and if they weren't relatives in physical sense as well, people will ask, why not? So your damned if you do and damned if you don't, but there is more wisdom in making them blood relatives to limit the amount of people who can fabricate leadership (see Zakariyas prayer in Suratal Mariam).
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 17, 2017 at 10:18 am)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 17, 2017 at 9:36 am)pocaracas Wrote: Divinely chosen families... come on, man. Use your brain!

Divinely chosen families?!?!
Let me guess - those families came out claiming they had been divinely chosen, right? RIGHT?!
A bit self-serving, wouldn't you say?

What could go wrong with such a claim?
It's not like god will punish them, huh?

There is a whole wisdom to this in Quran.

It's a tautology, that chosen ones that succeed each other in the divine mission of teaching a people after the founder, are closest to their founder and each other regardless of blood ties. But God due to them being spiritual closest, also in his wisdom, makes them biologically somehow related to each other.

And one reason is that if a follower of Mohammad or Abraham is more pious than a blood relative of theirs, the pious one due to their station with God and humanity, would be closer to them.

This is not true of normal humans. I would consider my parents closer to me, than more pious adults. Or my brothers closer to me, then more pious friends.

Family relationship, in God's book, some are closer to each other. And the closest to each other are the chosen ones who are partners in each others affair of guiding and leading and navigating humanity and manifesting God's Glory and Beauty.

It's a tautology, and if they weren't relatives in physical sense as well, people will ask, why not? So your damned if you and damned if you don't, but there is more wisdom in making them blood relatives to limit the amount of people who can fabricate leadership (see Zakariyas prayer in Suratal Mariam).

So what you're saying is that it's a post-hoc rationalization to keep power in that particular family.
Not really what you mentioned earlier that it was a divinely chosen family.

Either way, it's a self-serving notion to perpetuate power in a few people... A notion clearly reminiscent of the kingdoms where families stay in power for centuries.
If copying human hierarchical structures is the best this god can do, I am not impressed.
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 17, 2017 at 10:23 am)pocaracas Wrote:
(October 17, 2017 at 10:18 am)MysticKnight Wrote: There is a whole wisdom to this in Quran.

It's a tautology, that chosen ones that succeed each other in the divine mission of teaching a people after the founder, are closest to their founder and each other regardless of blood ties. But God due to them being spiritual closest, also in his wisdom, makes them biologically somehow related to each other.

And one reason is that if a follower of Mohammad or Abraham is more pious than a blood relative of theirs, the pious one due to their station with God and humanity, would be closer to them.

This is not true of normal humans. I would consider my parents closer to me, than more pious adults. Or my brothers closer to me, then more pious friends.

Family relationship, in God's book, some are closer to each other. And the closest to each other are the chosen ones who are partners in each others affair of guiding and leading and navigating humanity and manifesting God's Glory and Beauty.

It's a tautology, and if they weren't relatives in physical sense as well, people will ask, why not? So your damned if you and damned if you don't, but there is more wisdom in making them blood relatives to limit the amount of people who can fabricate leadership (see Zakariyas prayer in Suratal Mariam).

So what you're saying is that it's a post-hoc rationalization to keep power in that particular family.
Not really what you mentioned earlier that it was a divinely chosen family.

Either way, it's a self-serving notion to perpetuate power in a few people... A notion clearly reminiscent of the kingdoms where families stay in power for centuries.
If copying human hierarchical structures is the best this god can do, I am not impressed.

Responses:

1. The probability way of the past Quran shows the family that inherits the divine leadership of Mohammad would most likely face oppression.
2. It is a very limited amount of people, few is an understatement, it is limited always to Twelve Successors. Always. Lest it does seem like a monarchy or giving power to his offspring over others.
3. God negating power all but from Twelve Successors is a wise way in the people of Moses, because, we see if they had any chance, it would be to sticking to the chosen leaders as opposed to power hungry people like the clergy you guys all hate so much (and rightly so).
4. The wisdom of the Twelve in its last mention emphasizes on the corruption of priests and rabbis and scholars of religion in general, warning believers, how they make people go to extreme regarding chosen ones only as a means of corrupt control and how they hoard people's money and don't spend in God's way.   One of the wisdom of putting leadership in a chosen family and offspring, is to negate it from every power hungry person not worthy of leadership.
5. Leadership in religion is God's role, he guides and sufficient as a guide and helper, so necessarily, he will make it harder for humans to claim religious leadership whether they claim they are Prophets or in contact with Angels or hidden beings (Jinn gods) or claim to be successors, that is why he has emphasized a lot on look for proofs...and there is various proofs...limiting the number to twelve, and emphasizing on the number of successors and being consistent with it through all places and times, is of the wisdoms Quran emphasizes on though people may try to do away with the wisdom.  He knows our enemies won't cease to try to deceive humans.   So this makes it easy to distinguish the truth from falsehood.
6. Messengerhood of Mohammad is making people already claiming he did to heighten his name, so God told him to say, yes he does seek a reward, but it is not towards remembering him and glorifying him, but loving his family instead, so while the remembrance of Mohammad is heightened, it was all so people love the Twelve Successors and his holy daughter, and that was in Quran through so much emphasis - was for our own sake. It's for our own benefit.  And the benefit is something the whole Quran elaborates on.
Reply
RE: Enlightened rants...
(October 17, 2017 at 10:36 am)MysticKnight Wrote:
(October 17, 2017 at 10:23 am)pocaracas Wrote: So what you're saying is that it's a post-hoc rationalization to keep power in that particular family.
Not really what you mentioned earlier that it was a divinely chosen family.

Either way, it's a self-serving notion to perpetuate power in a few people... A notion clearly reminiscent of the kingdoms where families stay in power for centuries.
If copying human hierarchical structures is the best this god can do, I am not impressed.

Responses:

1. The probability way of the past Quran shows the family that inherits the divine leadership of Mohammad would most likely face oppression.
2. It is a very limited amount of people, few is an understatement, it is limited always to Twelve Successors. Always. Lest it does seem like a monarchy or giving power to his offspring over others.
3. God negating power all but from Twelve Successors is a wise way in the people of Moses, because, we see if they had any chance, it would be to sticking to the chosen leaders as opposed to power hungry people like the clergy you guys all hate so much (and rightly so).
4. The wisdom of the Twelve in its last mention emphasizes on the corruption of priests and rabbis and scholars of religion in general, warning believers, how they make people go to extreme regarding chosen ones only as a means of corrupt control and how they hoard people's money and don't spend in God's way.   One of the wisdom of putting leadership in a chosen family and offspring, is to negate it from every power hungry person not worthy of leadership.
5. Leadership in religion is God's role, he guides and sufficient as a guide and helper, so necessarily, he will make it harder for humans to claim religious leadership whether they claim they are Prophets or in contact with Angels or hidden beings (Jinn gods) or claim to be successors, that is why he has emphasized a lot on look for proofs...and there is various proofs...limiting the number to twelve, and emphasizing on the number of successors and being consistent with it through all places and times, is of the wisdoms Quran emphasizes on though people may try to do away with the wisdom.  He knows our enemies won't cease to try to deceive humans.   So this makes it easy to distinguish the truth from falsehood.
6. Messengerhood of Mohammad is making people already claiming he did to heighten his name, so God told him to say, yes he does seek a reward, but it is not towards remembering him and glorifying him, but loving his family instead, so while the remembrance of Mohammad is heightened, it was all so people love the Twelve Successors and his holy daughter, and that was in Quran through so much emphasis - was for our own sake. It's for our own benefit.  And the benefit is something the whole Quran elaborates on.

So... you're saying it's more like the military than the monarchy?
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Rants for the family of Taha and Yaseen. Mystic 124 11066 September 2, 2018 at 3:45 pm
Last Post: Aoi Magi



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)