Is Accepting Christian Evidence Special Pleading?

[Mister Agenda]

And if you can't think of it, it must not exist? I can think of five, and I'm no doctor.

ok, name them.

Completely blocked, damaged, or even missing fallopian tubes, Turner Syndrome, premature ovarian failure, cancers and diseases that destroy the ovaries, and Kallman Syndrome. Technically that's more than five, but I'm neither qualified nor interested in going into detail on all the types of diseases that can render portions of the female anatomy required for successful reproduction inoperative.

There are ways to overcome some of these with modern reproductive technology, but all would reasonably resulted in a conclusion that pregnancy was impossible 50 years ago.

[KevinM1]

How did I misrepresent, Huggy?

The guy's name was Prophet Yaweh.
He claimed he could summon UFOs through prayer.
He claimed these UFOs were manifestations of angels, and that angels and Yaweh were extraterrestrial (sounds like Dropshit)
He may not have been an actual street preacher... so one minor detail wrong, whoopdedoo.

And, much like the Marilyn Hickey experience (which I'm claiming as a band name), you posted the video as 'evidence' of god.  Evidence that looks like a common balloon with a reflective surface at a distance.

See, Huggy, you continue to throw your brain out the window when it comes to this shit.  If Marilyn Hickey spontaneously grew a new uterus (and, no web search I've run so far even links Marilyn Hickey to a missing uterus), she'd be the subject of at least one medical study, if not several.  Shit, I have something far less interesting, and I've been in the New England Journal of Medicine multiple times.  Similarly, if Prophet Yaweh could actually summon real UFOs, he wouldn't just be some dude hanging out in Las Vegas.  He'd be put into custody by the US government, and tested on.  And, ultimately, if faith healing was a real thing, we wouldn't have actual medical professionals begging people to stop with homeopathy and faith 'healing' services and to actually see a doctor.

That you're so willing to turn your brain off and accept obvious bullshit simply because you want it to be true isn't our problem. We're not the ones being irrational here.

[Crossless2.0]

One problem with this entire thread is that comparing Christianity to some other religions isn't an apple-to-apple comparison. Take Buddhism, for example. One could argue that Buddhism might be 'true' in some sense without Siddhartha Gautama ever having existed. We could posit, for the sake of argument, that he is an entirely legendary character, and this claim would in no way speak to the truth or falsehood of the teachings and practice attributed to him. You simply can't do that with Christianity without undercutting the foundations of the movement, which is based on allegedly historical events that fulfilled certain prophesies.

So for purposes of this conversation, are the Buddhist writings (or the writings of Hindu mystics) -- which dwarf the Bible -- to be considered as evidence for the claims made by those religions? I can't speak much to the question of Hindu scripture, but in the case of the Buddhist writings, we have "first hand" testimony of the efficacy of Buddha's teachings and practice by adherents who submitted themselves to the discipline and found enlightenment. It shouldn't matter that much of it was written centuries after Siddhartha allegedly lived, since Buddhism doesn't stand or fall with historical claims or even the actual existence of one man. It's the teachings and practice that matter.

^This^

But you know, the only reason Christianity isn't looked at the same way is that the people who claim to be an authoritative member of one of its countless sects insist on promoting their literalist interpretations.  A legendary Jesus with a message of hippy peace and love is an option not chosen - not one that is impossible.  Hell you could even have a mystical sub-sect which promotes allegorical self-transcendence a la Jesus.

There have been some outliers who chose that option. The problem is that with Christianity you have a "holy book" supposedly inspired by God and therefore the perfect vehicle of his message to humanity, and within that book are Paul's fevered ramblings. You can cobble together a hippie Jesus of sorts, but it flies in the face of this supposedly divinely inspired book, and Paul's message of the cross.

I find the Christian mystics interesting. They wrote in terms of Christ, but if you scrape away the veneer of Christian orthodoxy in their writings, you find a group of people who seem to have much more in common with their Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist counterparts than they have with most of their fellow Christians.

[brewer]

OK, lets go with the quantity thing for now (even if it's poor quantity). Why the limit to the first century? What is your evidence that christianity has more quantity over any other religion/deity from any time in history? Do you have specific numbers or is this just your prejudiced opinion? And what exactly qualifies something to fit into your "quantity" category?

Name another religions with evidence we can compare over any time span you want. Without a comparison, we would be left with just a litany of beliefs going way back that don't add anything to the discussion.

This is your claim, not mine. You provide the evidence that you believe fits into your "quantity" for christianity and any other religion and then let us compare.

Something tells me that because you want me to provide the "other religions evidence/quantity" that you haven't taken an objective look at what is out there for all other religions and you've based this/your thread on your less than objective position.

[Whateverist]

There is a persistent condition which drives many to insist that complicated points are a plain as the nose on your face. We probably all go there occasionally in regard to some topic or other. Huggy's turn I guess.

[Amarok]

Evidence that looks like a common balloon with a reflective surface at a distance.

I know right .A fucking white dot is what's convincing huggy . Here's a idea how about magic man actually brings a UFO to the ground .

[TheBeardedDude]

If you believe that yahoo summons UFOs, do you think this video makes it any better/more probable?

You didn't see the unidentified flying object in the video? The guy was asked to summon a UFO at the place of the news stations choosing, and the video is evidence that he did...

Wow. Okay, I've got some really cheap oceanfront property in Arizona I want to sell you.

[Minimalist]

Well why didn't he say so.  It can be true for him.  But surely he doesn't expect us to play along?

Because that takes all the fun out of it for him.  He expects us to see his invisible friend, too.

[Mister Agenda]

If you believe that yahoo summons UFOs, do you think this video makes it any better/more probable?

You didn't see the unidentified flying object in the video? The guy was asked to summon a UFO at the place of the news stations choosing, and the video is evidence that he did...

I could do the same thing with a confederate equipped with helium filled Mylar balloons. There's lots of videos of this guy, sometimes the 'UFOs' show up late or early (before he even prays!) and he indicates the general part of the sky to look in. All consistent with a confederate who occasionally messes up the timing.

Or I could use a kite. Or a drone. And who knows how Copperfield or that Angel guy who are real illusionists would do it, but I bet it would be more convincing than 'Prophet Yahweh'.

[Huggy Bear]

You didn't see the unidentified flying object

Yup and it does not prove dick . Let alone anything supernatural.

It seems you need to learn the difference between evidence and proof...

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You didn't see the unidentified flying object in the video? The guy was asked to summon a UFO at the place of the news stations choosing, and the video is evidence that he did...

I could do the same thing with a confederate equipped with helium filled Mylar balloons. There's lots of videos of this guy, sometimes the 'UFOs' show up late or early (before he even prays!) and he indicates the general part of the sky to look in. All consistent with a confederate who occasionally messes up the timing.

Or I could use a kite. Or a drone. And who knows how Copperfield or that Angel guy who are real illusionists would do it, but I bet it would be more convincing than 'Prophet Yahweh'.

Shall I take you up on that? I'll pick the day, time and place...