Ken Burns & Lynn Novick's Documentary of the Viet Nam War

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Missed most of that. Too busy shooting people.

[Minimalist]

Full disclosure:  In high school (graduated 1967) we discussed the war in my US Government class and there were only a couple of kids who were against the war.  I was not one of them.  This was against a backdrop of what they discussed last night.  The proverbial end-of-the-tunnel, any-day-now, the South Vietnamese are a real democracy, we have to stop the dominoes from falling horseshit that they had been trumpeting to everyone.  Sadly we had and still have a government which does not think that the citizens deserve the truth.
By the time Tet happened I was just starting my second semester in college and it was sobering.  Not only had we been lied to, the enemy had a will to fight which staggered us.  Tet, militarily was a disaster but the unintended consequences in terms of public opinion balanced the scale.  I came to realize that the protesters were right.  We couldn't believe a word we were being told.  And this series, with the powers-that-be admitting in their own words that all they cared about was not being the guy who "lost" the war backs that up.  The generals were pompous assholes and the politicians were craven cowards.  

The worst part is we never fucking learn.  We are getting, and have been getting, the same song and dance in Afghanistan.  "Oh, just give us more troops and we will beat the Taliban and turn the Afghans into a "real democracy."  We won't.  But we are the perpetual victims of our own bullshit.

[Minimalist]

Tonight's episode produced evidence that Nixon colluded with the South Vietnamese to sabotage the Paris Peace talks until after the election. 

Nixon colludes with Thieu.  Reagan colludes with Khomeini.  The WLB colludes with Putin.

WTF is it with republicunts and collusion?

[vorlon13]

That was quite a jolt. And Johnson felt his hands were tied and couldn't snag tricky Dick on it either even though he had him lock stock and barrel.


Isn't that what 'leaks' are for ??

Jeez, Lyndon, leave the fucking tape on the windowsill or something . . . . as it is, it's like you colluded with Nixon to insure his win.

[Minimalist]

Sounds like Obama with the WLB's game of footsie with Putin.  What is the point of gathering information if you can't use it?

[vorlon13]

Well, Coventry springs to mind . . . .

[Minimalist]

People claim that FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack, too, but let it happen because he wanted to get into the war.

He didn't.  They were busy tracking the Japanese fleet heading for Malaya and expecting a movement against the Philippines.
The British cleverly sent two battleships to intercept the Japanese without air cover with predictable results.

[Amarok]

The generals were pompous assholes 

Most of whom had obviously ignored the history of that region . And it's habit of sending foreign invaders packing .

[Minimalist]

They trained to fight the wrong war.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, Coventry springs to mind . . . .

You'd be wrong.