Saudi cleric says women too stupid to drive

[Brian37]

That's just an excuse. They know perfectly well women are capable of driving. They're just insecure little pricks who don't want to lose their sense of superiority and control over the other gender.

Um no, just like Christians beat the shit out of Susan B Anthony for wanting the right to vote, and picked up a bible to justify it, they truly believe the Koran gives them the right to dominate and dictate to females.

Sexism exists religiously even in America today. The LDS and Mormons and Amish still to this day value gender roles as individual sects. Our government has changed laws to be more equitable sure, but it was in spite of religion, not because of it.

Sexism exists in every religion, even Buddhism Sikh and Hindu depending on individual family or sect. Rape in India and China do not get reported on the scale it does in the west, because they still place the responsibility of virtue and honor of the family on females widely. 

I'd only agree that women have more rights in the west than they do in parts of the east. But the sexism is still justified by holy books.

I agree men are not superior to women. But I really would suggest you read your own bible and not skip over or ignore the sexism in it. You may not want people to use the bible to justify it, but they do even today. 

BACK THEN, in the monotheism and polytheism of all of antiquity, girls/women were not treated as equals, but property to be bartered between families. It is why you see motifs of pre arranged marriages in many religions throughout history and some sects even today. It is why some Hindu families still pick the bride's husband. It is why Warren Jeffs tried to justify child brides. Sure, Muslims do it too, but they didn't invent sexism. Denial of females driving there, is no different than when Christians wanted to deny Susan B Anthony the right to vote.

If you make this about Muslims or only about driving then you are not viewing all the world's religion in a bigger sample rate.

Widen your sample rate and don't simply focus on Islam. I'd only agree that they are stuck in the past on average more. But sexism has been justified by every religion in the world to greater or lesser degrees.

[WinterHold]

Pretty sure it's Saudi men I've seen on Youtube "surfing" at high speed on top of cars in the desert.

But the women are the stupid ones...

[Mystic]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia government or most of the Wahabi clerics actually believe in Quran. I mean this literally and not metaphorically.

[Brian37]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia government or most of the Wahabi clerics actually believe in Quran.  I mean this literally and not metaphorically.

Yea which is why they publicly whip and execute apostates. At best you might argue some play the game because they want the power, but Saudi Arabia is deeply religious and very far right religiously.

[Mystic]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia government or most of the Wahabi clerics actually believe in Quran.  I mean this literally and not metaphorically.

Yea which is why they publicly whip and execute apostates. 

And what does Quran say about freedom of religion?

---

 At best you might argue some play the game because they want the power

And what does Quran say about that? About other than God's chosen ones trying to make people follow them and obey them? Or look towards them and be bound to listen to them?

Or claiming purity?

Who is actually in power according to Quran, who but Satan's friends who pretend to be believers end up leading people regarding revelation.

As for the chosen leaders, they come to make people reflect and pass enough light in that regard, to manifest the truth and guide by it.

They manifested by reason and wanted people to refer through reasoning all their hadiths back to Quran.

There is a dark sinister force that always corrupts religion - and people are too afraid to look at it.

[Brian37]

Yea which is why they publicly whip and execute apostates. 

And what does Quran say about freedom of religion?

---

 At best you might argue some play the game because they want the power

And what does Quran say about that? About other than God's chosen ones trying to make people follow them and obey them? Or look towards them and be bound to listen to them?

Or claiming purity?

Who is actually in power according to Quran, who but Satan's friends who pretend to be believers end up leading people regarding revelation.

As for the chosen leaders, they come to make people reflect and pass enough light in that regard, to manifest the truth and guide by it.

They manifested by reason and wanted people to refer through reasoning all their hadiths back to Quran.

There is a dark sinister force that always corrupts religion - and people are too afraid to look at it.

Try for once to pull your nose out of that one book, and look at the bigger picture I am trying to convey to you.

I love Catholic Lady, but she does this too. "What does the bible say about that?" She has the same thoughts about Jesus as you do about Mo. She has the same thoughts about the Bible as you do about the Koran.

She believes as fervently in her version of the God of Abraham as you do in your version of the God of Abraham.

And just like you point to Muslims of other sects of Islam and say, "They got it wrong." Catholic lady points to other sects of Christianity and says the same, "They got it wrong."

But it is the same in all religions. Jews do it, even Buddhist do it. There is not one religion in the world that does not have sub sects that argue over the "correct" interpretation of the holy writing the umbrella label has.

I'll be happy with any theist who doesn't justify violence. But the thing is, religion does lead humans to compete over the same religions, that is why sub sects exist.  Fearful conservatives who interpret a holy book exist IN EVERY RELIGION. Compassionate non violent liberals also exist in every religion.

But both claim the same books to justify their morality.

If the hero Bible God or the Jewish God or the Muslim God existed, and it wanted us all to get along, sorry, all I can say to that is he either does not care, is not aware, does not give a shit, or does not exist.

I think the better option is that these fictional beings do not exist, and when humans do good or bad, humans are doing that. I do not see our species morality as being handed down to us. I see our species morality as being in our genes. I see the only thing helping humans when they want to, are other humans.

There is no such thing as a religion that cannot be corrupted. I don't say that just about religion, but anything. Political ideas can be corrupted, and businesses can be corrupted. The problem with humans on any subject, including religion, any religion, is nobody wants to face the fact that utopias do not exist. 

There are merely greedy humans, and compassionate humans, there are power mongers, and those who value sharing. MK, don't try to create a perfect Islam or perfect Koran. There is no such thing as a perfect bible or perfect Torah or Talmud either. There are only imperfect humans, including me.

[Mystic]

And what does Quran say about freedom of religion?

---

And what does Quran say about that? About other than God's chosen ones trying to make people follow them and obey them? Or look towards them and be bound to listen to them?

Or claiming purity?

Who is actually in power according to Quran, who but Satan's friends who pretend to be believers end up leading people regarding revelation.

As for the chosen leaders, they come to make people reflect and pass enough light in that regard, to manifest the truth and guide by it.

They manifested by reason and wanted people to refer through reasoning all their hadiths back to Quran.

There is a dark sinister force that always corrupts religion - and people are too afraid to look at it.

Try for once to pull your nose out of that one book, and look at the bigger picture I am trying to convey to you.

I love Catholic Lady, but she does this too. "What does the bible say about that?" She has the same thoughts about Jesus as you do about Mo. She has the same thoughts about the Bible as you do about the Koran.

She believes as fervently in her version of the God of Abraham as you do in your version of the God of Abraham.

And just like you point to Muslims of other sects of Islam and say, "They got it wrong." Catholic lady points to other sects of Christianity and says the same, "They got it wrong."

But it is the same in all religions. Jews do it, even Buddhist do it. There is not one religion in the world that does not have sub sects that argue over the "correct" interpretation of the holy writing the umbrella label has.

I'll be happy with any theist who doesn't justify violence. But the thing is, religion does lead humans to compete over the same religions, that is why sub sects exist.  Fearful conservatives who interpret a holy book exist IN EVERY RELIGION. Compassionate non violent liberals also exist in every religion.

But both claim the same books to justify their morality.

If the hero Bible God or the Jewish God or the Muslim God existed, and it wanted us all to get along, sorry, all I can say to that is he either does not care, is not aware, does not give a shit, or does not exist.

I think the better option is that these fictional beings do not exist, and when humans do good or bad, humans are doing that. I do not see our species morality as being handed down to us. I see our species morality as being in our genes. I see the only thing helping humans when they want to, are other humans.

That is true but contrary what most people believe and what you believe, the leaders leading all these sects are putting on a show.   This is true of Saudi Arabia and is true of the Catholic Church and it's true of the clergy in Iran. They believe in the order of Jinn and Humans, and believe in leading humans and masking the truth because humanity is not ready for the truth.

They are not sincerely misguided - their followers are - but not them.    They tend to be the worst of humans lest they change their mind and expose the truth they are initiated in.

They are deceivers. 

And when they come out to explain what they hid and why they hid it for benevolent reasons and want to implement their new plan -  be sure God in a revelation has refuted the deceivers who will claim to lead to God and enlightenment, be sure he has refuted them.

[Brian37]

Try for once to pull your nose out of that one book, and look at the bigger picture I am trying to convey to you.

I love Catholic Lady, but she does this too. "What does the bible say about that?" She has the same thoughts about Jesus as you do about Mo. She has the same thoughts about the Bible as you do about the Koran.

She believes as fervently in her version of the God of Abraham as you do in your version of the God of Abraham.

And just like you point to Muslims of other sects of Islam and say, "They got it wrong." Catholic lady points to other sects of Christianity and says the same, "They got it wrong."

But it is the same in all religions. Jews do it, even Buddhist do it. There is not one religion in the world that does not have sub sects that argue over the "correct" interpretation of the holy writing the umbrella label has.

I'll be happy with any theist who doesn't justify violence. But the thing is, religion does lead humans to compete over the same religions, that is why sub sects exist.  Fearful conservatives who interpret a holy book exist IN EVERY RELIGION. Compassionate non violent liberals also exist in every religion.

But both claim the same books to justify their morality.

If the hero Bible God or the Jewish God or the Muslim God existed, and it wanted us all to get along, sorry, all I can say to that is he either does not care, is not aware, does not give a shit, or does not exist.

I think the better option is that these fictional beings do not exist, and when humans do good or bad, humans are doing that. I do not see our species morality as being handed down to us. I see our species morality as being in our genes. I see the only thing helping humans when they want to, are other humans.

That is true but contrary what most people believe and what you believe, the leaders leading all these sects are putting on a show.   This is true of Saudi Arabia and is true of the Catholic Church and it's true of the clergy in Iran. They believe in the order of Jinn and Humans, and believe in leading humans and masking the truth because humanity is not ready for the truth.

They are not sincerely misguided - their followers are - but not them.    They tend to be the worst of humans lest they change their mind and expose the truth they are initiated in.

They are deceivers. 

And when they come out to explain what they hid and why they hid it for benevolent reasons and want to implement their new plan -  be sure God in a revelation has refuted the deceivers who will claim to lead to God and enlightenment, be sure he has refuted them.

Do yourself a favor for once, STOP dreaming about pushing a perfect religion. There is no such thing. There is no perfect atheist either. 

There are only greedy humans, power hungry humans, and compassionate humans. I know you think you have the magic cure in your holy book, but so what, so do most of our 7 billion population. 

"I got it right"
"My holy book says"
"If you'd just interpret it my way"

Are what both the power mongers and compassionate argue in every religion.

[Mystic]

Most population don't think they have a cure, they just look to be fed information by the deceivers trusting them and who lead them away from God all in the name of being lead and guided by those who know more.

---

Do yourself a favor for once, STOP dreaming about pushing a perfect religion. 

I don't represent nor know the rules of that perfect religion from God. I know some philosophy of why we must rely on God and his handhold, and that if we seek enlightenment, we will be shown, and if we seek proofs, then proofs are available, and if we wish for an explanation that clarifies and gives us light, there is that which remains from what the family of Mohammad and the family of Ali has left.

[Brian37]

Most population don't think they have a cure, they just look to be fed information by the deceivers trusting them and who lead them away from God all in the name of being lead and guided by those who know more.

---

Do yourself a favor for once, STOP dreaming about pushing a perfect religion. 

I don't represent nor know the rules of that perfect religion from God. I know some philosophy of why we must rely on God and his handhold, and that if we seek enlightenment, we will be shown, and if we seek proofs, then proofs are available, and if we wish for an explanation that clarifies and gives us light, there is that which remains from what the family of Mohammad and the family of Ali has left.

"We must rely on God"

Again, Christians and Jews say the same thing.

10,000 years of written religion. 5,000 years of Jewish religion, 1,900 years of Christianity and 1,600 years of Islam.

I have an extremely hard time with ALL THREE religions, whom all claim the same God of Abraham, all claim he is all loving, and all powerful, knowing in that entire time world peace has never existed globally.

If you had 3 kids constantly fighting, you wouldn't stop it? Would you wait 10,000 years, or 5,000 years or 1,900 years or 1,600 years? If you had 3 kids would you let them beat the fuck out of each other then blame them for what they cant understand like you do?

Maybe the reality is that humans don't understand themselves? Maybe they don't understand nobody is helping us from above and only we can help each other.