What would you do if you found out God existed

[WinterHold]

I don't have the remotest idea what that monologue means and I've no intention of clicking that link to find out.

Wait wait..Who told you that I expected you to do so?

[Succubus]

I admire Joe in a way, he was a shithouse no question, but oh boy was he good at what he did. The thing with the gold plates and the seer stones? Fuckin brilliant! That there is Mark Twain inventiveness.

[The Industrial Atheist]

He would have a lot of explaining to do. For the op to be true much of the bible would have to be total bullshit.

He'd have to explain for instance, why people who have done no wrong get all kinds of disabilities and diseases.

Original sin doesn't come close. People aren't responsible for the actions of others. Even if they were, punishment should be equal instead of a roll of the dice to decide if you'll have a healthy body and brain or not. Or if you'll be porn poverty stricken, middle class, or rich.

If he could provide good explanations for that, yes I would accept him. I doubt such explanations could possibly exist.

The disabled serve a purpose; that is showing the healthy how lucky they are to be healthy; and how life could've been them.
The death of somebody in a young age; or the sickness of another, made humanity a better breed. Taught us to be compassionate, because we can be in that sick person's shoes. Eventually; you feel sorry for the needy; because you imagine their pain inflicted on you. Thus; societies advance and good prospers.

If God opened the blessings on humans in this life; we'll end up with the Greek Mythology's scenario. Earth would've burnt; international  conventions of preventing WMDS and Chemical Weapons would've not been an option:

Sura 42, The Quran:
( 27 )   And if Allah had extended [excessively] provision for His servants, they would have committed tyranny throughout the earth. But He sends [it] down in an amount which He wills. Indeed He is, of His servants, Acquainted and Seeing.

Aren't there less unfair ways to learn compassion? Also if there were no disabled or sick people there wouldn't be any need for those types of compassion?

Assuming we would still have complex relationships there would be plenty of opportunities to show compassion.

We can have human compassion without childhood cancer, leukemia, bipolar disorder, depression etc.

It's not fair to the sufferers, in any case, that they have to be the one to provide the lesson.

[WinterHold]

A god who killed every puppy, kitten, cub, fawn, etc., on the planet because he couldn't get a simple think like a human right deserves no respect even if he does exist.

Ask him who massacres sheep daily to eat; or who burnt trees to make "long rifles that shoot projectiles at cubs", or who locked animals from their natural habitat and called them "pets", who knew plants breath yet insisted on rolling them in cigarettes; ask him who crucified followers of Jesus; ask him who fought WW1 and WW2 and killed about 70 million people for reasons not related to religion or whatsoever; ask him about serial killers.

But also; ask him about the rain that comes down to grow gardens. Ask him about mothers and their natural care for their kids; even animals. Ask him about the cycle of the Sun and the Moon. Ask him about the billions of years the universe remained a place that sustains life (us). Ask him about flowers.

---

The disabled serve a purpose; that is showing the healthy how lucky they are to be healthy; and how life could've been them.
The death of somebody in a young age; or the sickness of another, made humanity a better breed. Taught us to be compassionate, because we can be in that sick person's shoes. Eventually; you feel sorry for the needy; because you imagine their pain inflicted on you. Thus; societies advance and good prospers.

If God opened the blessings on humans in this life; we'll end up with the Greek Mythology's scenario. Earth would've burnt; international  conventions of preventing WMDS and Chemical Weapons would've not been an option:

Aren't there less unfair ways to learn compassion? Also if there were no disabled or sick people there wouldn't be any need for those types of compassion?

Assuming we would still have complex relationships there would be plenty of opportunities to show compassion.

We can have human compassion without childhood cancer,  leukemia, bipolar disorder, depression etc.

It's not fair to the sufferers, in any case, that they have to be the one to provide the lesson.

They are; if this life was the only one:

Sura 29, The Quran:
( 64 )   And this worldly life is not but diversion and amusement. And indeed, the home of the Hereafter - that is the [eternal] life, if only they knew.

Real life begins after we die. And we have our whole current lives to keep full of good deeds; taking the best choices no matter how we suffer; because it's the asset we'll use in the next life; in other words we get tested in this one to win our ranks in the next.

Take the wealthiest man in the world. He will have limited life just like you and me, eventually both of us will die, both of us will cease to exist. Equal. Nothing remains but our legacy represented in our deeds.

Human compassion is born from fear. If someone feared a certain fate; they'll develop the compassion because they picture themselves in the shoes of the sufferer. One fine example is how old people rarely understand the needs of their grand kids (they can't imagine themselves living a modern life). Or how some societies would never understand the cultural context of another (they can't imagine what the other society feels)

[Whateverist]

Okay. With that correction in mind, I'm not sure I understand the question. Remorse for letting him down on top of the inherent remorse?... ie sorry to him as well as sorry to whoever I wronged?

Yes. 

I imagine decent people already feel remorse for those they have wronged. But when we believe in God we believe in apologizing to the person we have wronged as well as expressing remorse to God for violating His commandment to love others and treating one of "His children" badly. That's where I was going with that.

This right here is where I see religion infantilizing its followers.  It starts to seem that a believer is never fully an adult.  Why should a god want us to go about with his commandments foremost on our mind looking at each situation for the opportunities it affords to do or avoid what ever god has commanded?  Did he really create us so poorly that we have to operate in such a constrained manner?  Are our natural impulses so faulty as to require constant over-riding?

[drfuzzy]

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A god who killed every puppy, kitten, cub, fawn, etc., on the planet because he couldn't get a simple think like a human right deserves no respect even if he does exist.

---

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Ask him who massacres sheep daily to eat; or who burnt trees to make "long rifles that shoot projectiles at cubs", or who locked animals from their natural habitat and called them "pets", who knew plants breath yet insisted on rolling them in cigarettes; ask him who crucified followers of Jesus; ask him who fought WW1 and WW2 and killed about 70 million people for reasons not related to religion or whatsoever; ask him about serial killers.

But also; ask him about the rain that comes down to grow gardens. Ask him about mothers and their natural care for their kids; even animals. Ask him about the cycle of the Sun and the Moon. Ask him about the billions of years the universe remained a place that sustains life (us). Ask him about flowers.

---

---

---

Aren't there less unfair ways to learn compassion? Also if there were no disabled or sick people there wouldn't be any need for those types of compassion?

Assuming we would still have complex relationships there would be plenty of opportunities to show compassion.

We can have human compassion without childhood cancer,  leukemia, bipolar disorder, depression etc.

It's not fair to the sufferers, in any case, that they have to be the one to provide the lesson.

---

---

They are; if this life was the only one:

---

---

Sura 29, The Quran:
( 64 )   And this worldly life is not but diversion and amusement. And indeed, the home of the Hereafter - that is the [eternal] life, if only they knew.

---

Real life begins after we die.

---

And we have our whole current lives to keep full of good deeds; taking the best choices no matter how we suffer; because it's the asset we'll use in the next life; in other words we get tested in this one to win our ranks in the next.

Take the wealthiest man in the world. He will have limited life just like you and me, eventually both of us will die, both of us will cease to exist. Equal. Nothing remains but our legacy represented in our deeds.

Human compassion is born from fear. If someone feared a certain fate; they'll develop the compassion because they picture themselves in the shoes of the sufferer. One fine example is how old people rarely understand the needs of their grand kids (they can't imagine themselves living a modern life). Or how some societies would never understand the cultural context of another (they can't imagine what the other society feels)

---

So sad.  So pathetic.  Oh yes, I was raised in a group that believed that way.  Living in fear and slavish (attempted) obedience to a repulsive book of fairy tales, spending their lives in terror that the imaginary tyrant in the sky will send them to hell for the slightest doubt and / or minor infractions.  Spending the one life that we can prove we have in fear, believing that this entire life is just some warm-up or test to see who gets to go to heaven.  And for thousands of years, no one has been able to prove that an afterlife of ANY kind exists at all.

[Cyberman]

The disabled serve a purpose; that is showing the healthy how lucky they are to be healthy; and how life could've been them.
The death of somebody in a young age; or the sickness of another, made humanity a better breed. Taught us to be compassionate, because we can be in that sick person's shoes. Eventually; you feel sorry for the needy; because you imagine their pain inflicted on you. Thus; societies advance and good prospers.

Fuck you. Sorry, but fuck you. I take incredible exception to all of this, but most especially the bolded part. How dare you say that. How fucking dare you suggest that a person's life only exists to serve as a lesson to others. A person who died this morning had their own plans for tomorrow. They had hopes and dreams and fears and expectations of the future, just like you and I do. I take it as a deeply personal insult that someone like my Sam was created to die just to give me a lesson. To you and anyone else with the unmitigated gall to suck the scabby dick of a god that requires that: fuck that god, fuck its lesson and fuck you too.

Angry as I am, I'm still far more moral than you to suggest that you dedicate your life to being the object lesson that you preach. However, I reserve the right to gloat over the possibility.

[Tiberius]

Ok, so let's suppose that God really does exist and that He proved His existence to you. He showed up and did exactly whatever was needed to convince you personally that He is real.

You had a conversation with Him for many many hours, over the course of many days in a row, and He even showed you things... like certain things in the future of humanity so you could see how everything will ultimately fall together. He took you back in time so you could see particular events, including many moments from the life of Jesus. He showed you what the afterlife is like, fully answered every single one of your questions about why He allows certain things to happen, etc, and cleared up all misconceptions and misunderstandings you have had that made you think He was bad.

Let's say you came away from all that realizing God isn't who you thought He would have been, but is actually completely good. Would you then want to be with Him? Want to follow His ways? Feel remorse for the times in your life when you acted wrongly?

...Or would you feel angry and continue on hating the idea of God (even after learning He actually is good), hating the idea of having to "answer" to a higher being, etc?

The problem with the scenario you pose is that it makes no sense. Atheists have long realized that nothing about the universe makes any sense if God was "completely good". At best, the only possible "good" Gods are the deist ones, the ones who set up everything and then just casually observe...the scientist Gods if you will.

The main reason we understand this is that most humans have morals that far exceed anything any holy book has ever come up with. Furthermore I reckon most people who sit down and think about it could probably imagine a redesigned universe which at the very least would solve a bunch of problems that we face. If God is all powerful and all good, this universe can't possibly be the best he could do. So either he's not all powerful or he's not all good, or he doesn't exist.

As for whether I'd want to be with him or follow his ways, I think it would depend on what his ways required. If it turns out that being homosexual is a sin or that dead babies go to purgatory, then fuck his "ways" and fuck his "all goodness" because it's bullshit.

I also take issue with the notion that atheists "hate" the idea of God or having to answer to a higher being. I don't hate the idea of God anymore than I hate the idea of unicorns. I have no issue with answering to authority as long as that authority has a valid reason for me to do so.

[WinterHold]

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Ask him who massacres sheep daily to eat; or who burnt trees to make "long rifles that shoot projectiles at cubs", or who locked animals from their natural habitat and called them "pets", who knew plants breath yet insisted on rolling them in cigarettes; ask him who crucified followers of Jesus; ask him who fought WW1 and WW2 and killed about 70 million people for reasons not related to religion or whatsoever; ask him about serial killers.

But also; ask him about the rain that comes down to grow gardens. Ask him about mothers and their natural care for their kids; even animals. Ask him about the cycle of the Sun and the Moon. Ask him about the billions of years the universe remained a place that sustains life (us). Ask him about flowers.

---

---

---

They are; if this life was the only one:

---

Real life begins after we die.

---

And we have our whole current lives to keep full of good deeds; taking the best choices no matter how we suffer; because it's the asset we'll use in the next life; in other words we get tested in this one to win our ranks in the next.

Take the wealthiest man in the world. He will have limited life just like you and me, eventually both of us will die, both of us will cease to exist. Equal. Nothing remains but our legacy represented in our deeds.

Human compassion is born from fear. If someone feared a certain fate; they'll develop the compassion because they picture themselves in the shoes of the sufferer. One fine example is how old people rarely understand the needs of their grand kids (they can't imagine themselves living a modern life). Or how some societies would never understand the cultural context of another (they can't imagine what the other society feels)

---

So sad.  So pathetic.  Oh yes, I was raised in a group that believed that way.  Living in fear and slavish (attempted) obedience to a repulsive book of fairy tales, spending their lives in terror that the imaginary tyrant in the sky will send them to hell for the slightest doubt and / or minor infractions.  Spending the one life that we can prove we have in fear, believing that this entire life is just some warm-up or test to see who gets to go to heaven.  And for thousands of years, no one has been able to prove that an afterlife of ANY kind exists at all.

Doubts are never criticized; only a portion of them is; but a God should already know what his creations' brains produce:

Sura 50, The Quran:
( 16 )   And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein

Without the whispers of the self, we will never doubt a false doctrine. My belief is that God knows ; even if the Church or the Islamic religious institution tried to tranquilize me with fear of thinking.

By Sura 50, Verse 16 from the Quran; I'm authorized to call "humanity and doubt" a will of the creator himself. We were made to doubt.

I don't care about other religious communities (including Islamic ones); doubt should be a right admitted by the highest of institutions on earth; and whoever tries to controls it, has a shame to hide, has a fear of being exposed.

Real, authentic beliefs hold against any doubt.

---

The disabled serve a purpose; that is showing the healthy how lucky they are to be healthy; and how life could've been them.
The death of somebody in a young age; or the sickness of another, made humanity a better breed. Taught us to be compassionate, because we can be in that sick person's shoes. Eventually; you feel sorry for the needy; because you imagine their pain inflicted on you. Thus; societies advance and good prospers.

Fuck you. Sorry, but fuck you. I take incredible exception to all of this, but most especially the bolded part. How dare you say that. How fucking dare you suggest that a person's life only exists to serve as a lesson to others. A person who died this morning had their own plans for tomorrow. They had hopes and dreams and fears and expectations of the future, just like you and I do. I take it as a deeply personal insult that someone like my Sam was created to die just to give me a lesson. To you and anyone else with the unmitigated gall to suck the scabby dick of a god that requires that: fuck that god, fuck its lesson and fuck you too.

Angry as I am, I'm still far more moral than you to suggest that you dedicate your life to being the object lesson that you preach. However, I reserve the right to gloat over the possibility.

I say that because I, myself, am a handicapped fella.
I can't run; I can't stay in the heat; I can't see clearly; I can't drive. When your immune system bombards your own organs; it kicks like a bitch; that's all.

I realize that my pain helped so many to re-think their lives; helped some people to seek better lives, so somebody sees me when I walk like a zombie and just say "damn....I should treat mamma good before I turn like this fella". Or "Shit.. I should quit smoking, fast-food and unhealthy habits".

I had dreams, but they evaporated. Handicapped people have dreams that got evaporated. And mostly; these dreams are binary dreams for the healthy only; for a brief time only; that's why they evaporate.

You didn't get it yet? humanity was so evil, that it made the standard of happiness a price only the healthy can reach !
Unlike God who has a heaven for all.

I don't mind offering myself as a carpet if it's going to save somebody. Just like humanitarian agents in Africa touch kids with infections, not giving a damn about themselves getting sick.

Just know it: when a bomb falls; I'll be the one covering you from the blast.

[Astonished]

So sad.  So pathetic.  Oh yes, I was raised in a group that believed that way.  Living in fear and slavish (attempted) obedience to a repulsive book of fairy tales, spending their lives in terror that the imaginary tyrant in the sky will send them to hell for the slightest doubt and / or minor infractions.  Spending the one life that we can prove we have in fear, believing that this entire life is just some warm-up or test to see who gets to go to heaven.  And for thousands of years, no one has been able to prove that an afterlife of ANY kind exists at all.

Doubts are never criticized; only a portion of them is; but a God should already know what his creations' brains produce:

Sura 50, The Quran:
( 16 )   And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein

Without the whispers of the self, we will never doubt a false doctrine. My belief is that God knows ; even if the Church or the Islamic religious institution tried to tranquilize me with fear of thinking.

By Sura 50, Verse 16 from the Quran; I'm authorized to call "humanity and doubt" a will of the creator himself. We were made to doubt.

I don't care about other religious communities (including Islamic ones); doubt should be a right admitted by the highest of institutions on earth; and whoever tries to controls it, has a shame to hide, has a fear of being exposed.

Real, authentic beliefs hold against any doubt.

---

Fuck you. Sorry, but fuck you. I take incredible exception to all of this, but most especially the bolded part. How dare you say that. How fucking dare you suggest that a person's life only exists to serve as a lesson to others. A person who died this morning had their own plans for tomorrow. They had hopes and dreams and fears and expectations of the future, just like you and I do. I take it as a deeply personal insult that someone like my Sam was created to die just to give me a lesson. To you and anyone else with the unmitigated gall to suck the scabby dick of a god that requires that: fuck that god, fuck its lesson and fuck you too.

Angry as I am, I'm still far more moral than you to suggest that you dedicate your life to being the object lesson that you preach. However, I reserve the right to gloat over the possibility.

I say that because I, myself, am a handicapped fella.
I can't run; I can't stay in the heat; I can't see clearly; I can't drive. When your immune system bombards your own organs; it kicks like a bitch; that's all.

I realize that my pain helped so many to re-think their lives; helped some people to seek better lives, so somebody sees me when I walk like a zombie and just say "damn....I should treat mamma good before I turn like this fella". Or "Shit.. I should quit smoking, fast-food and unhealthy habits".

I had dreams, but they evaporated. Handicapped people have dreams that got evaporated. And mostly; these dreams are binary dreams for the healthy only; for a brief time only; that's why they evaporate.

You didn't get it yet? humanity was so evil, that it made the standard of happiness a price only the healthy can reach !
Unlike God who has a heaven for all.

I don't mind offering myself as a carpet if it's going to save somebody. Just like humanitarian agents in Africa touch kids with infections, not giving a damn about themselves getting sick.

Just know it: when a bomb falls; I'll be the one covering you from the blast.

Then speak for your goddamn motherfucking piece of shit self, cockgobbler. You are living proof that you are an objectively worse human being (and I'm being generous still keeping you included in that) for your faith. Anyone who takes no lesson from YOU and what it's done to your mentality and morality, and does not abandon this horseshit is also an objectively worse person.