More Race Hysteria from SJW's

[Bob Kelso]

Doesn't even take politics....as many of these purported examples demonstrate, from sp to youtube channels to mtv series and ofc the entirety of the wingnutopsheres "news" apparatus....it makes for good tv.  I'm wondering what there is, if there's anything at all, beyond the good tv.

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-in elaboration, I wonder what sense it would make to refer to "the problems of marital culture", by reference to The Real Housewives.

I'm trying to figure out what "sp" is in context.

Enlighten me?

South Park

[John V]

Good post neo.

[The Grand Nudger]

Perhaps I'm wrong in my approach to what designates their branding, but I think their culture is much like any Americans culture, varied yet similar, just with key differences. It's their nigh on cult-like behavior and hypocrisy  that singles them out from the rest. They preach their beliefs (namely what I mentioned before) and act with rabid fervor against the "others" with complete disregard to their prieviously touted beliefs.

Do you think it would be fair to distill your objection down to the notion that the tolerant should tolerate intolerance?  

I think it's a good representation of their inability to be self aware. By treating people the way they treated her and others like her they manifest the things they generally claim to stand against. Intolerance, and hatefulness.

As far as I can tell..an outspoken advocate for victims became an apologist for victimizers..and you, in this, feel that there is some sort of intolerance and hatefulness in her previous fanbase turning on her?  

In my opinion it's their blind tribalism, and their extreme us vs them mentality that undermines them and creates the problems that are so easily honed in on by the right. It's like that old meme with the bicyclist jamming a rod into his own spokes.

Do you think that advocates of social justice are the ones who create the us v them group dynamics when dealing with bigots whose platform is the literal embodiment of precisely that?  The whole point of social justice is an attempt to influence society and law so that everyone is "us"....but..obviously, the bigots aint havin that...so..what is there to be done, in that case...and does the exclusion of bigots and bigotry from a society or culture of equality actually represent meaningful hypocrisy....or have we found another talking point that collapses in on itself as soon as it;s explored?  

I'd say it's a mongoose/viper deal. The alt right/regressive left are tied to one another, it's just the nature of the beast right now.

Are we gonna hit all the boxes....the regressive left, now? I think that the terms "sjw culture" and "pc culture" as used by their detractors are directly tied to the right..but not tethered in any other way to reality or a coherent objection to social justice or political correctness.  It's real easy, don't call people the n word, and maybe allow for others all the rights and privileges one claims for themselves.  To object to a pc culture or an sjw culture....apart from intentional mis-characterizations of either position....is to object to -that-.  This is, ofc, -exactly- what the people who use either term to discredit either position object to.....as much as they'd like to babble about a laundry list of other things and grievances.

Can you tell me what's regressive about the actual position of social justice...or political correctness? Do you object to either position in actuality, or a (literally) cartoonish mischaracterization fed to you -by- the right and alt right?

---

Doesn't even take politics....as many of these purported examples demonstrate, from sp to youtube channels to mtv series and ofc the entirety of the wingnutopsheres "news" apparatus....it makes for good tv.  I'm wondering what there is, if there's anything at all, beyond the good tv.

---

-in elaboration, I wonder what sense it would make to refer to "the problems of marital culture", by reference to The Real Housewives.

I'm trying to figure out what "sp" is in context.

Enlighten me?

As Bob explained, south park.  Twice now just in this thread we've seen south park referenced as conceptual proof that the sjw problem exists. In one of those cases, a person is pretty convinced that they totally came up with the same objections on their own. This, despite having their objections informed by that very show and it's explicit (and explicitly hilarious) satirical take on what the shows vehemently anti-liberal creators see as liberalism.  

Let that sink in........

[henryp]

I also recognize that African-Americans, as a demographic category, lag behind other demographic groups in terms of income level and housing as a legacy of Jim Crow era institutionalized racism. But I do not for one minute believe that institutional racism exists anymore. There is no widespread belief in or promotion of white supremacy. People who hold those views are fringe losers that in no way represent the attitudes the vast majority of people. America is not a racist nation just because it is not entirely free from prejudice or because statistically some groups outperform others. Asian-Americans do not outperform Anglo-Americans because of racism. A right-leaning person attributes the success of Asian-Americans to a culture of excellence, hard work, and strong family involvement. Left-leaning interpretations simply cannot account for such disparities.

I don't think the motivations are necessarily racist, but their are a lot of decisions made in self-interest that have the same effect.  

People want their kids to go the best school possible, typically.  That means you look up the school stats, and buy your house in the neighborhood with the best school.  Then you make sure you support the politicians that aren't going to bus your kid across town to the shitty school.  In a lot of cases, the 'best school' and the 'white/asian' school are synonymous.  And the shitty school is the poor minority school.   This is a reason I assume a lot of white women vote for Trump/Republicans.  

The country's history of racism basically poked a bunch of holes in black america's boat.  And rather than try to fix their boat, we just yell for people to jump into the water and swim for it.  And we celebrate when someone from the shitty school beats the odds, graduates, gets a good job, and can now buy a house in the neighborhood we live in, and now their kids can go to the nice school.  But the boat they came from is still full, and sinking.  It's not a great solution.

But an actual solution probably involves diluting the amount of shitty kids per class by spreading them out over a number of schools, instead of piling them all in one.  But strangely enough, when looking for volunteers to send their kids to the black school instead of the white school, progressives clam up real quick about equal opportunity.  Almost everyone with actual skin in the game regardless of political affiliation is in favor of keeping the status quo.   

I don't know if designed economic segregation qualifies as institutional racism, but the results seem mostly interchangeable.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Wallym, I removed my kudos so that the lying slanderers won't accuse you of being a racist.

[Bob Kelso]

Do you think it would be fair to distill your objection down to the notion that the tolerant should tolerate intolerance?

No. I think it would be asinine, perhaps purposefully so. What part of "cult like behavior" and "hypocrisy" did you not understand? I'd be happy to explain.

Honestly now, within the context of our conversation what would lead you to believe that I hold that notion?

As far as I can tell..an outspoken advocate for victims became an apologist for victimizers..and you, in this, feel that there is some sort of intolerance and hatefulness in her previous fanbase turning on her?

If that's your interpretation of the event then there isn't much conversation to be had here. I've followed some of the people Laci wanted to speak openly with (such a crime) for years. Satire and arguments on the internet arent victimizing anyone. Hell, Chris Ray Gun is the most polarizing of them -aside from Sargon of Akkad (who is a dick admittedly)- and he just writes goofy ass songs, makes response videos and satirizes the news within his wheelhouse.

Do you think that advocates of social justice are the ones who create the us v them group dynamics when dealing with bigots whose platform is the literal embodiment of precisely that?  The whole point of social justice is an attempt to influence society and law so that everyone is "us"....but..obviously, the bigots aint havin that...so..what is there to be done, in that case...and does the exclusion of bigots and bigotry from a society or culture of equality actually represent meaningful hypocrisy....or have we found another talking point that collapses in on itself as soon as it;s explored?

No I'd say it's a problem on both sides, especially so when the ones advocating for the things that should be advocated for act exactly like their opposition. It's like trying to clean up a huge pile of shit with more shit.

You seem to think I oppose the concept of social justice, I don't, just the misuse of it and the cretins that masquerade as champions for the cause. Or do you think it can't be misused?

Are we gonna hit all the boxes....the regressive left, now?

Give me your checklist and I'll give you mine. 🙄

I think that the terms "sjw culture" and "pc culture" as used by their detractors are directly tied to the right..but not tethered in any other way to reality or a coherent objection to social justice or political correctness.  It's real easy, don't call people the n word, and maybe allow for others all the rights and privileges one claims for themselves.  To object to a pc culture or an sjw culture....apart from intentional mis-characterizations of either position....is to object to -that-.  This is, ofc, -exactly- what the people who use either term to discredit either position object to.....as much as they'd like to babble about a laundry list of other things and grievances.

Did you just say that anyone who uses these terms is a racist and against equality? I'm not saying that's your intent but that's definitely how you come across.

Can you tell me what's regressive about the actual position of social justice...or political correctness?

I use the terms interchangeably because their actions are regressive, not because their causes are. Does that make sense? The two are not one in the same with the people we're talking about.

If I told you that I'm for equality, and freedom but then prevented someone from speaking at an event because I politically disagree with him would you consider me an activist for equality and freedom or a douchebag who is trying to silence people I disagree with?

Do you object to either position in actuality, or a (literally) cartoonish mischaracterization fed to you -by- the right and alt right?

I dunno, are you aware of calling people sheep or is it just unintentional douchebaggery?

I do my own thinking, just because my position differs from yours doesn't mean it was fed to me. This is the second time you've accused someone of this in this thread.

[The Grand Nudger]

No. I think it would be asinine, perhaps purposefully so. What part of "cult like behavior" and "hypocrisy" did you not understand? I'd be happy to explain.

Honestly now, within the context of our conversation what would lead you to believe that I hold that notion?

Your definition of what an sjw was followed by criticisms of hypocrisy.   If they make claims to tolerance, for example..but are meaningfully hypocritical..this is a charge of intolerance.  

If that's your interpretation of the event then there isn't much conversation to be had here. I've followed some of the people Laci wanted to speak openly with (such a crime) for years. Satire and arguments on the internet arent victimizing anyone. Hell, Chris Ray Gun is the most polarizing of them -aside from Sargon of Akkad (who is a dick admittedly)- and he just writes goofy ass songs, makes response videos and satirizes the news within his wheelhouse.

Well, what's -your- interpretation of the event..I did ask.  

No I'd say it's a problem on both sides, especially so when the ones advocating for the things that should be advocated for act exactly like their opposition. It's like trying to clean up a huge pile of shit with more shit.

Can you be more specific?  

You seem to think I oppose the concept of social justice, I don't, just the misuse of it and the cretins that masquerade as champions for the cause. Or do you think it can't be misused?

I don't actually, I generally expect people to agree with the concept of social justice.  What would you refer to as an example of the concept of social justice being misused?  

Give me your checklist and I'll give you mine. 🙄

I think that the terms "sjw culture" and "pc culture" as used by their detractors are directly tied to the right..but not tethered in any other way to reality or a coherent objection to social justice or political correctness.  It's real easy, don't call people the n word, and maybe allow for others all the rights and privileges one claims for themselves.  To object to a pc culture or an sjw culture....apart from intentional mis-characterizations of either position....is to object to -that-.  This is, ofc, -exactly- what the people who use either term to discredit either position object to.....as much as they'd like to babble about a laundry list of other things and grievances.

Did you just say that anyone who uses these terms is a racist and against equality? I'm not saying that's your intent but that's definitely how you come across.

I just said that the terms use as such was created explicitly by people who do object to social justice, though..obviously..I think that at least some people who use the term do so because of the pervasive way it was disseminated and cultivated.  There are at least two, in this thread, imo.

I use the terms interchangeably because their actions are regressive, not because their causes are. Does that make sense? The two are not one in the same with the people we're talking about.

What people are we talking about..is the question I keep asking.  More specifically, does your characterization of those peoples actions accurately describe those actions?

If I told you that I'm for equality, and freedom but then prevented someone from speaking at an event because I politically disagree with him would you consider me an activist for equality and freedom or a douchebag who is trying to silence people I disagree with?

Is there some requirement that you provide a platform for bigotry, or be docile and inactive when you could effectively oppose bigotry...to be for equality and freedom?  I was worried that we'd strayed into "just another opinion" territory..but now you've went ahead and planted your flag in it.  Where oh where have I heard this before?  I'm perfectly comfortable with people refusing to allow a bigot a platform if and where they can. I don't have to let a bigot set up shop in my living room. I can tell a business or venue that I won't patronize them with my support if they, in turn, provide a bigot with a platform to spread their bigotry. I can demand that richard fucking spencer not be allowed to speak to my grade schoolers in their auditorium.

I'm not seeing a problem, though I am watching you parrot their talking point with this. Personally..I'd hand the fuckers a megaphone just so I can point and laugh, but there's no requirement to do so..and a person who points out that doing so is to enable the spread of bigotry in the first place are right. That is how it;s down, that is how it;s normalized, and there's a definite risk to that approach. While I'm pointing and laughing, some disaffected asshole is shaking his head in the crowd thinking "finally, that guy up on the stage gets it" and that's a plus-1 for the bigots.

I'm not really sure why anyone worries about bigots not having a platform in the first place. We hear an awful lot from them for a people so thoroughly silenced and oppressed......

I dunno, are you aware of calling people sheep or is it just unintentional douchebaggery?

Another one, really?  I guess it's just completely impossible that your opinions might have been influenced, and it's all just a giant coincidence .

I do my own thinking, just because my position differs from yours doesn't mean it was fed to me. This is the second time you've accused someone of this in this thread.

I wonder why that might be?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Is there some requirement that you provide a platform for bigotry, or be docile and inactive when you could effectively oppose bigotry...to be for equality and freedom?

You mean 'opposing bigotry" by showing up to a lecture on free speech, storming the stage, and screaming slogans while people in masks outside smash storefronts and light dumpsters on fire.

 I can tell a business or venue that I won't patronize them with my support if they, in turn, provide a bigot with a platform to spread their bigotry.

You mean like driving entrepreneurs out of business because white women shouldn't be allowed to sell burritos out of a food truck.

[The Grand Nudger]

You mean 'opposing bigotry" by showing up to a lecture on free speech, storming the stage, and screaming slogans while people in masks outside smash storefronts and light dumpsters on fire.

Why stop there?  Last time a nazi got uppity we shot them all to shit.

You mean like driving entrepreneurs out of business because white women shouldn't be allowed to sell burritos out of a food truck.

Goodness gracious, they're coming after the white women?  Circle the wagons boys!

[Neo-Scholastic]

You mean 'opposing bigotry" by showing up to a lecture on free speech, storming the stage, and screaming slogans while people in masks outside smash storefronts and light dumpsters on fire.

Why stop there?  Last time a nazi got uppity we shot them all to shit.

You mean like driving entrepreneurs out of business because white women shouldn't be allowed to sell burritos out of a food truck.

Goodness gracious, they're coming after the white women?  Circle the wagons boys!

Right, because when confronted with the violence and hypocrisy infecting the left, it's all jokes to you.