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RE: Personal evidence
November 2, 2017 at 12:33 am
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2017 at 12:33 am by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 2, 2017 at 12:29 am)Minimalist Wrote: (November 1, 2017 at 11:25 pm)Hammy Wrote: I am now going to quote mine min for parody purposes. This is not what he said. I repeat, this is not what he said. It's a joke:
He tickled mine too!
I have to be careful though, because literally have you ever seen how people like William Lane Craig (Or, as I prefer to call him "Billy Lame Creg") will literally quote mine parodies and jokes from serious atheists and seriously try to mispresent quotes of quotes and obvious non-representations as serious representations of what the atheist said?
Next up: Neo jumps in to put what Min didn't say here into the Hall of Shame.
OH my God! He ticked yours too?!
Just think of all the morons who will come here looking for the original source?
Oh what am I saying. Chad never gives sources!
Even my sources have a lot more substance.
Or should I say, "sauces", and "a literal load of substance".
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RE: Personal evidence
November 2, 2017 at 9:14 am
Personal evidence is fine for what is, ultimately, a private matter (religious belief).
The trouble arises when people entitle themselves to decide what is right for others, forgetting that there is no such authority to be found.
Morituri Delendi!
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RE: Personal evidence
November 2, 2017 at 6:41 pm
(November 1, 2017 at 10:50 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: Many theists tend to state that their belief in god is dependent upon personal evidence which seems to be intertwined with religious faith, but I am not discussing religious faith at this point.
Rather, I want to focus on this "personal evidence". Here we have something that is personal, something developed from within to lead an individual to a particular belief that by the very definition of "personal" cannot be experienced by anyone except the individual person experiencing it. Then there's the "evidence" part; of course, so long as the theist claims it is "personal" the definition of "evidence" can be altered to fit that person's experience.
The problem rises when we have a bunch of people who believe the same thing, claiming to believe in the same god, having evidence all of them agree upon, yet in the end it's still "personal evidence" which cannot logically be compared with others since every one's personal experience of the world and how it is viewed is completely different, right?
No. There are things upon which we can all agree when we view them. A rock is a rock to everyone, a tree is a tree to everyone. God cannot be held to this standard, which makes religious belief as a community false if the only evidence that can ever be provided is "personal" and merely within that individual person experiencing it.
Those who believe in something that actually exists can get together and point at it, touch it, see it, etc, in order to understand collectively that it is the same thing being experienced. The same cannot be stated for god, for there is no empirical evidence upon which to agree. All there is for the religious person is a personal unnecessary need for something that does not exist.
The reason you have trouble with personal experience of God is because you do not know Him. God reveals things only to those who really believe in Him and those of us who have experienced this understand exactly what has happened. If you never believe you can not ever experience what God has reserved for His faithful. By the way you will never get that evidence you are waiting for, faith must come first, God's plan God's way and you can't change it. It was set in eternity something that's outside everyone.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Personal evidence
November 2, 2017 at 7:55 pm
Quote: The reason you have trouble with personal experience of God is because you do not know Him.
And neither do you, asshole.
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RE: Personal evidence
November 2, 2017 at 8:05 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2017 at 8:06 pm by bennyboy.)
It makes me cry and act stupid every Sunday, so it must be real. I couldn't possibly cry and act stupid because I'm surrounding by crying stupid people. So must be God.
(November 2, 2017 at 7:55 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote: The reason you have trouble with personal experience of God is because you do not know Him.
And neither do you, asshole.
He has to know God. Otherwise who does he spend two hours a day talking to? The voices in his head?
Nah. . . that would be crazy!
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RE: Personal evidence
November 2, 2017 at 8:38 pm
Yet again, "I'll see it when I believe it".
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Personal evidence
November 3, 2017 at 1:40 pm
(November 2, 2017 at 6:41 pm)Godscreated Wrote: (November 1, 2017 at 10:50 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: Many theists tend to state that their belief in god is dependent upon personal evidence which seems to be intertwined with religious faith, but I am not discussing religious faith at this point.
Rather, I want to focus on this "personal evidence". Here we have something that is personal, something developed from within to lead an individual to a particular belief that by the very definition of "personal" cannot be experienced by anyone except the individual person experiencing it. Then there's the "evidence" part; of course, so long as the theist claims it is "personal" the definition of "evidence" can be altered to fit that person's experience.
The problem rises when we have a bunch of people who believe the same thing, claiming to believe in the same god, having evidence all of them agree upon, yet in the end it's still "personal evidence" which cannot logically be compared with others since every one's personal experience of the world and how it is viewed is completely different, right?
No. There are things upon which we can all agree when we view them. A rock is a rock to everyone, a tree is a tree to everyone. God cannot be held to this standard, which makes religious belief as a community false if the only evidence that can ever be provided is "personal" and merely within that individual person experiencing it.
Those who believe in something that actually exists can get together and point at it, touch it, see it, etc, in order to understand collectively that it is the same thing being experienced. The same cannot be stated for god, for there is no empirical evidence upon which to agree. All there is for the religious person is a personal unnecessary need for something that does not exist.
The reason you have trouble with personal experience of God is because you do not know Him. God reveals things only to those who really believe in Him and those of us who have experienced this understand exactly what has happened. If you never believe you can not ever experience what God has reserved for His faithful. By the way you will never get that evidence you are waiting for, faith must come first, God's plan God's way and you can't change it. It was set in eternity something that's outside everyone.
GC
But SteveII and other say the evidence is already there!
I hear a lot about how you can't test god, but, if I could decide to believe in him, wouldn't that be testing him?
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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RE: Personal evidence
November 4, 2017 at 11:22 am
They did test him in the Bible if I'm not mistaken... God vs Baal in Who can light a fire with prayer? God lit some wet firewood and the followers of Baal lost the bet so they were all slain, naturally...
Why can't we do the same thing with a pile of firewood?
"History is something that very few people have been doing while everyone else was ploughing fields and carrying water buckets." -Yuval Noah Harari
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RE: Personal evidence
November 4, 2017 at 12:08 pm
(November 4, 2017 at 11:22 am)c152 Wrote: They did test him in the Bible if I'm not mistaken... God vs Baal in Who can light a fire with prayer? God lit some wet firewood and the followers of Baal lost the bet so they were all slain, naturally...
Why can't we do the same thing with a pile of firewood?
That was Baal deceiving everyone, he was testing the faith of all his prophets. He just made it look as though he didn't exist by not setting fire to the bull.
I'm here to tell you Baal is the real God, he just thought it would be fun mess with everyone. I know this because I have a personal relationship with him.
Sometimes when I'm in bed I can feel his presence inside me. When people say they know God, they are using the word know in the biblical way.
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RE: Personal evidence
November 4, 2017 at 12:27 pm
(November 4, 2017 at 12:08 pm)Cod Wrote: That was Baal deceiving everyone, he was testing the faith of all his prophets. He just made it look as though he didn't exist by not setting fire to the bull.
I'm here to tell you Baal is the real God, he just thought it would be fun mess with everyone. I know this because I have a personal relationship with him.
Sometimes when I'm in bed I can feel his presence inside me. When people say they know God, they are using the word know in the biblical way.
I guess... I guess I just never believed in Baal hard enough. I mean, I used to believe in Him and I thought I knew Him until I lost my faith. But maybe I never believed enough in Baal like you do. It's all my fault that I never knew Him, He's just testing me like He tested those slaughtered prophets. I will try and believe in Him like you do, maybe Baal will have a personal relationship with me in my head too...
"History is something that very few people have been doing while everyone else was ploughing fields and carrying water buckets." -Yuval Noah Harari
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