Travis Walton versus The Resurrection.

[Godscreated]

 That is your choice, just remember all choices have consequences.
GC

---

The only consequence it has is that I don't believe silly things and have sunday free. Yay.

What you want to believe doesn't make it the truth. As far as having Sunday free, I do to, God made the day for man to rest and take time to worship Him.

GC

[downbeatplumb]

The only consequence it has is that I don't believe silly things and have sunday free. Yay.

What you want to believe doesn't make it the truth. As far as having Sunday free, I do to, God made the day for man to rest and take time to worship Him.

GC

I don't "not want to not believe in god" I just don't.
You seem to think that I made a choice not think that god is real, that at some point I thought that I would reject the idea after at some point believing.
That isn't what happened.
I had heard of god and found it silly right from the get go at no point did the idea seem like one that I could deem a possibility.

Think of a silly idea that you instinctively think is stupid and not worthy of your time, whatever that thing is, that's how god is to me.

I do some good stuff on sunday its 12k run and airsoft day.

[Jehanne]

What you want to believe doesn't make it the truth. As far as having Sunday free, I do to, God made the day for man to rest and take time to worship Him.

GC

I don't "not want to not believe in god" I just don't.
You seem to think that I made a choice not think that god is real, that at some point I thought that I would reject the idea after at some point believing.
That isn't what happened.
I had heard of god and found it silly right from the get go at no point did the idea seem like one that I could deem a possibility.

Think of a silly idea that you instinctively think is stupid and not worthy of your time, whatever that thing is, that's how god is to me.

I do some good stuff on sunday its 12k run and airsoft day.

It's like saying that one chooses not to believe in fairies or that the World is not flat.

[LostLocke]

What you want to believe doesn't make it the truth.

I agree with that statement, but keep in mind it's a two way street.

If Jehovah exists, and 100% of the population doesn't believe in him, he still exists.
If Jehovah doesn't exist, and 100% of the population does believe in him, he still doesn't exist.

[Godscreated]

What you want to believe doesn't make it the truth.

I agree with that statement, but keep in mind it's a two way street.

If Jehovah exists, and 100% of the population doesn't believe in him, he still exists.
If Jehovah doesn't exist, and 100% of the population does believe in him, he still doesn't exist.

You would be correct in your statement and I understand what you mean by it. The thing for me is I know without a doubt God exists, the way He has worked in my life leaves no doubts, things have come about that would rule out coincidence and things that would have been impossible for me to imagine or manipulate into being. I'm not easily convinced about things and will doubt unless I can prove to myself things are as they are or seem to be.

GC

---

What you want to believe doesn't make it the truth. As far as having Sunday free, I do to, God made the day for man to rest and take time to worship Him.

GC

I don't "not want to not believe in god" I just don't.

That actually seems like a statement that is steeped in doubt, with a desire not to know. I say this without regard to the rest of your post.

You seem to think that I made a choice not think that god is real, that at some point I thought that I would reject the idea after at some point believing.
That isn't what happened.

You had to make a choice no matter what you might think is or isn't true, I had no idea whether you ever believed or not. No one just doesn't believe all people from past experiences form an opinion through those experiences in life.

I had heard of god and found it silly right from the get go at no point did the idea seem like one that I could deem a possibility.

What have you found to be silly in the past that you now know to be true. Without an investigation into God there is no way for you to form an opinion He doesn't exist, it's an unfounded opinion that no one will take seriously. The word I put in bold above (seem) shows you have no real idea whether God is real or not.

Think of a silly idea that you instinctively think is stupid and not worthy of your time, whatever that thing is, that's how god is to me.

Actually I do not take things instinctively for the most part, I'm naturally curious. I use to believe that UFOs were true because I thought I saw one as a young person, it scared me and I ran home. After getting home I began to question what I had seen but didn't quit believing until years later. Investigating the possibilities of UFOs over the years and the distances they would have to travel led me to understand they were not possible. The same goes for evolution.

I do some good stuff on sunday its 12k run and airsoft day.

 I do not think I said anything about doing good things on Sundays and I did say it was a day of rest and worship. 12ks and airsoft are neither one. I know you consider them fun but good in the sense of doing for other is not part of doing good.

GC

[downbeatplumb]

I don't "not want to not believe in god" I just don't.

That actually seems like a statement that is steeped in doubt, with a desire not to know. I say this without regard to the rest of your post.

Well then you've read it wrong. What it means is that I find the concept of god to be childish, like believing that you have a real relationship with your action man.
And I don't believe it. I don't have a choice. I just don't.

I'll give you a challenge.

Stop believing in god for a minute.

If its a choice you should be able to start believing again once the minute is up.

Now...go..

How that work out for ya.

You seem to think that I made a choice not think that god is real, that at some point I thought that I would reject the idea after at some point believing.
That isn't what happened.

You had to make a choice no matter what you might think is or isn't true, I had no idea whether you ever believed or not. No one just doesn't believe all people from past experiences form an opinion through those experiences in life.

My opinion is that gods are unbelievabl;e rubbish

I had heard of god and found it silly right from the get go at no point did the idea seem like one that I could deem a possibility.

What have you found to be silly in the past that you now know to be true. Without an investigation into God there is no way for you to form an opinion He doesn't exist, it's an unfounded opinion that no one will take seriously. The word I put in bold above (seem) shows you have no real idea whether God is real or not.

What should I investigate?

What is a god?
What is it made of?
What does it look like?
Where did it come from?
I could go on but you get the general idea.

At the moment all I have heard of god are fairy tales and ill thought out "arguments" that all fail.

Its like asking me to study santa because you are sure he's true.

Think of a silly idea that you instinctively think is stupid and not worthy of your time, whatever that thing is, that's how god is to me.

Actually I do not take things instinctively for the most part, I'm naturally curious. I use to believe that UFOs were true because I thought I saw one as a young person, it scared me and I ran home. After getting home I began to question what I had seen but didn't quit believing until years later. Investigating the possibilities of UFOs over the years and the distances they would have to travel led me to understand they were not possible.

Not impossible, just very very improbable but finally some sense. Well done.

The same goes for evolution.

And instantly you ruin it by actually gong against all available evidence.

I just posted an article where speciation had actually been documented in the wild in birds for the first time. You are so wrong it just isn't funny

Strange how it seems to be americans who cling to the old stories and ignore the facts.

I do some good stuff on sunday its 12k run and airsoft day.

 I do not think I said anything about doing good things on Sundays and I did say it was a day of rest and worship. 12ks and airsoft are neither one. I know you consider them fun but good in the sense of doing for other is not part of doing good.

GC

Going to church is not "doing good" its just wasting time unless they serve a good coffee and have an active social calendar, in which case its a club.

[Godscreated]

I don't "not want to not believe in god" I just don't.

That actually seems like a statement that is steeped in doubt, with a desire not to know. I say this without regard to the rest of your post.

Well then you've read it wrong. What it means is that I find the concept of god to be childish, like believing that you have a real relationship with your action man.
And I don't believe it. I don't have a choice. I just don't.

Sure you have a choice, you just do not want to admit it because that would make you responsible for your eternal destination. God will show all why they had a choice and that they actually recognized they did, this will be done at the Judgement.

I'll give you a challenge.

Stop believing in god for a minute.

If its a choice you should be able to start believing again once the minute is up.

Now...go..

How that work out for ya.

Can't ignore what I already know to be real and truthful and it would be stupid to try. You want to deal with me as though you were Satan himself and it want work because god protects those who are His and I am one of those. 

You seem to think that I made a choice not think that god is real, that at some point I thought that I would reject the idea after at some point believing.
That isn't what happened.

You had to make a choice no matter what you might think is or isn't true, I had no idea whether you ever believed or not. No one just doesn't believe all people from past experiences form an opinion through those experiences in life.

My opinion is that gods are unbelievabl;e rubbish

At least you tell the truth about this, saying it's your opinion. If you do not come to accept Christ you will find that I have been honest with you when you die. Just remember once a persons life is over there are no choices.

I had heard of god and found it silly right from the get go at no point did the idea seem like one that I could deem a possibility.

What have you found to be silly in the past that you now know to be true. Without an investigation into God there is no way for you to form an opinion He doesn't exist, it's an unfounded opinion that no one will take seriously. The word I put in bold above (seem) shows you have no real idea whether God is real or not.

What should I investigate?

What is a god?
What is it made of?
What does it look like?
Where did it come from?
I could go on but you get the general idea.

At the moment all I have heard of god are fairy tales and ill thought out "arguments" that all fail.

Its like asking me to study santa because you are sure he's true.

The Bible is a good place to start and a local church can be of great help.
God is the all powerful creator and savior of this world.
God is spirit, outside of that I can not say.
God has no beginning, He has always existed.
He did not come from anywhere, He has always existed everywhere.

What you have heard are stories of the only God and what He is capable of. How could you know if an argument about God is ill thought out, you know nothing of Him.

Think of a silly idea that you instinctively think is stupid and not worthy of your time, whatever that thing is, that's how god is to me.

Actually I do not take things instinctively for the most part, I'm naturally curious. I use to believe that UFOs were true because I thought I saw one as a young person, it scared me and I ran home. After getting home I began to question what I had seen but didn't quit believing until years later. Investigating the possibilities of UFOs over the years and the distances they would have to travel led me to understand they were not possible.

Not impossible, just very very improbable but finally some sense. Well done.

Impossible, traveling those distances would make it an impossibility. Not to mention all the hazards that would need to be over come.

The same goes for evolution.

And instantly you ruin it by actually gong against all available evidence.

I just posted an article where speciation had actually been documented in the wild in birds for the first time. You are so wrong it just isn't funny

Strange how it seems to be americans who cling to the old stories and ignore the facts.

Strange how people who claim to be logical can fool themselves into believing there is evidence of evolution when none has ever been presented, I did not read the article you posted but i'm sure I  know what it's about, guess what those birds are still birds, just because different birds can breed with each other doesn't mean evolution has taken place.
I suppose you would call all the different breeds of dogs different species, yet ever one of them can breed with each other and any of the wild dogs. Wolves and coyotes have been doing so for a long time. By the way if those islands are so isolated how is it that this one bird made it there, bet that never occurred to you did it and since it did how many others have made it over the last few thousand years. I'm not going to argue evolution in this thread I have done it in others and it leads to nothing.

I do some good stuff on sunday its 12k run and airsoft day.

 I do not think I said anything about doing good things on Sundays and I did say it was a day of rest and worship. 12ks and airsoft are neither one. I know you consider them fun but good in the sense of doing for other is not part of doing good.

GC

Going to church is not "doing good" its just wasting time unless they serve a good coffee and have an active social calendar, in which case its a club.

 Going to church to worship God is a good thing even though you can't comprehend it. Much good is received by those who are sincere in their worship of God and their fellowship with their fellow Christians.

GC

[downbeatplumb]

Sure you have a choice, you just do not want to admit it because that would make you responsible for your eternal destination. God will show all why they had a choice and that they actually recognized they did, this will be done at the Judgement.

I don't believe in god for exactly the same reason I don't believe in santa. Is that clear enough for you?

I'll give you a challenge.

Stop believing in god for a minute.

If its a choice you should be able to start believing again once the minute is up.

Now...go..

How that work out for ya.

Can't ignore what I already know to be real and truthful and it would be stupid to try. You want to deal with me as though you were Satan himself and it want work because god protects those who are His and I am one of those. 

And I know that god is a stupid idea and can't ignore that.

You seem to think that I made a choice not think that god is real, that at some point I thought that I would reject the idea after at some point believing.
That isn't what happened.

You had to make a choice no matter what you might think is or isn't true, I had no idea whether you ever believed or not. No one just doesn't believe all people from past experiences form an opinion through those experiences in life.

My opinion is that gods are unbelievable rubbish

At least you tell the truth about this, saying it's your opinion. If you do not come to accept Christ you will find that I have been honest with you when you die. Just remember once a persons life is over there are no choices.

There is nothing when a person dies. That's it game over man!

Life after death is like saying theres pizza after pizza.

No there isn't.

I had heard of god and found it silly right from the get go at no point did the idea seem like one that I could deem a possibility.

What have you found to be silly in the past that you now know to be true. Without an investigation into God there is no way for you to form an opinion He doesn't exist, it's an unfounded opinion that no one will take seriously. The word I put in bold above (seem) shows you have no real idea whether God is real or not.

What should I investigate?

What is a god?
What is it made of?
What does it look like?
Where did it come from?
I could go on but you get the general idea.

At the moment all I have heard of god are fairy tales and ill thought out "arguments" that all fail.

Its like asking me to study santa because you are sure he's true.

The Bible is a good place to start and a local church can be of great help.
God is the all powerful creator and savior of this world.

I don't think that that is correct.

God is spirit, outside of that I can not say.

"Spirit" is not a thing.

God has no beginning, He has always existed.

Prove it.

He did not come from anywhere, He has always existed everywhere.

Then so could the universe negating the requirement for a god.

What you have heard are stories of the only God and what He is capable of. How could you know if an argument about God is ill thought out, you know nothing of Him.

Indeed. And the more I hear the more stupid it sounds.

Think of a silly idea that you instinctively think is stupid and not worthy of your time, whatever that thing is, that's how god is to me.

Actually I do not take things instinctively for the most part, I'm naturally curious. I use to believe that UFOs were true because I thought I saw one as a young person, it scared me and I ran home. After getting home I began to question what I had seen but didn't quit believing until years later. Investigating the possibilities of UFOs over the years and the distances they would have to travel led me to understand they were not possible.

Not impossible, just very very improbable but finally some sense. Well done.

Impossible, traveling those distances would make it an impossibility. Not to mention all the hazards that would need to be over come.

[quote='Godscreated' pid='1663182' dateline='1511627228']

The same goes for evolution.

And instantly you ruin it by actually gong against all available evidence.

I just posted an article where speciation had actually been documented in the wild in birds for the first time. You are so wrong it just isn't funny

Strange how it seems to be americans who cling to the old stories and ignore the facts.

Strange how people who claim to be logical can fool themselves into believing there is evidence of evolution when none has ever been presented, I did not read the article you posted but i'm sure I  know what it's about, guess what those birds are still birds, just because different birds can breed with each other doesn't mean evolution has taken place.
I suppose you would call all the different breeds of dogs different species, yet ever one of them can breed with each other and any of the wild dogs. Wolves and coyotes have been doing so for a long time. By the way if those islands are so isolated how is it that this one bird made it there, bet that never occurred to you did it and since it did how many others have made it over the last few thousand years. I'm not going to argue evolution in this thread I have done it in others and it leads to nothing.

This shows that you do not understand evolution so it probably is pointless to argue with you on it, I know how it works has been explained to you time and time again and you just don't get it.

I do some good stuff on sunday its 12k run and airsoft day.

 I do not think I said anything about doing good things on Sundays and I did say it was a day of rest and worship. 12ks and airsoft are neither one. I know you consider them fun but good in the sense of doing for other is not part of doing good.

GC

Going to church is not "doing good" its just wasting time unless they serve a good coffee and have an active social calendar, in which case its a club.

 Going to church to worship God is a good thing even though you can't comprehend it. Much good is received by those who are sincere in their worship of God and their fellowship with their fellow Christians.

GC

Well I'm glad you enjoy it.

To me going to church is the most odious tedium every time I've been dragged there. Makes me yawn just thinking of it.

[JackRussell]

GC's lack of understanding of evolution and oft repeated PRATTS demonstrate his lack of rationality.

Then he talks about his certainty about God, and wonders why we are unconvinced.

It's sad really, because his idea of god would know that his nonsense is unconvincing, and would enable him to actually demonstrate itself.

A very weak god or a very weak mind?

[Godscreated]

Sure you have a choice, you just do not want to admit it because that would make you responsible for your eternal destination. God will show all why they had a choice and that they actually recognized they did, this will be done at the Judgement.

I don't believe in god for exactly the same reason I don't believe in santa. Is that clear enough for you?

I understand what you are trying to say it's been clear from the get go, I just do not accept it. I know what the Omniscient God of the universe says and according to Him you are wrong.

Can't ignore what I already know to be real and truthful and it would be stupid to try. You want to deal with me as though you were Satan himself and it want work because god protects those who are His and I am one of those. 

And I know that god is a stupid idea and can't ignore that.

Ignoring God is exactly what you are doing and it want fly at the Judgement.

You had to make a choice no matter what you might think is or isn't true, I had no idea whether you ever believed or not. No one just doesn't believe all people from past experiences form an opinion through those experiences in life.

At least you tell the truth about this, saying it's your opinion. If you do not come to accept Christ you will find that I have been honest with you when you die. Just remember once a persons life is over there are no choices.

There is nothing when a person dies. That's it game over man!

Life after death is like saying theres pizza after pizza.

No there isn't.

I suppose you have proof there's no afterlife? Sure there's pizza after pizza all you have to do is open the next box.  

The Bible is a good place to start and a local church can be of great help.
God is the all powerful creator and savior of this world.

I don't think that that is correct.

You better be sure.

God is spirit, outside of that I can not say.

"Spirit" is not a thing.

That is how God describes Himself to us, it's so we can have some kind of understanding that He is not like us.

God has no beginning, He has always existed.

Prove it.

 This is what God has said and I believe it because He has never lied to me. 

He did not come from anywhere, He has always existed everywhere.

Then so could the universe negating the requirement for a god.

The universe requires a creator and that is God.

What you have heard are stories of the only God and what He is capable of. How could you know if an argument about God is ill thought out, you know nothing of Him.

Indeed. And the more I hear the more stupid it sounds.

That's because you desire it, too.

[quote pid='1664148' dateline='1511782968']

And instantly you ruin it by actually gong against all available evidence.

I just posted an article where speciation had actually been documented in the wild in birds for the first time. You are so wrong it just isn't funny

Strange how it seems to be americans who cling to the old stories and ignore the facts.

Strange how people who claim to be logical can fool themselves into believing there is evidence of evolution when none has ever been presented, I did not read the article you posted but i'm sure I  know what it's about, guess what those birds are still birds, just because different birds can breed with each other doesn't mean evolution has taken place.
I suppose you would call all the different breeds of dogs different species, yet ever one of them can breed with each other and any of the wild dogs. Wolves and coyotes have been doing so for a long time. By the way if those islands are so isolated how is it that this one bird made it there, bet that never occurred to you did it and since it did how many others have made it over the last few thousand years. I'm not going to argue evolution in this thread I have done it in others and it leads to nothing.

This shows that you do not understand evolution so it probably is pointless to argue with you on it,  I know how it works has been explained to you time and time again and you just don't get it.

I understand the theory just fine. I find it lacking in many ways and I can see faults in it. At least i take the time to study the theory, I'm sure you can't say the same about Christianity.

Going to church is not "doing good" its just wasting time unless they serve a good coffee and have an active social calendar, in which case its a club.

 Going to church to worship God is a good thing even though you can't comprehend it. Much good is received by those who are sincere in their worship of God and their fellowship with their fellow Christians.

GC

Well I'm glad you enjoy it.

To me going to church is the most odious  tedium every time I've been dragged there. Makes  me yawn just thinking of it.

  That's because you do not care about learning about the God who has given you life.

GC
[/quote]