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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 3:07 pm
(November 21, 2017 at 1:14 am)Haipule Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 12:39 am)Face2face Wrote: Don't forget Isaiah 45:7
God loves to murder humans How in the HELL did you arrive at such nonsense from Isaiah 45:7? Are you a Hebrew speaker, or scholar? Or, did someone teach you how to be that brilliantly stupid? You shouldn't put words in God's mouth, or mind, He never said nor thought! In your defense, why not, everyone else does! And they went to school to learn how to be that BRILLIENTLY stupid! Language has rules! Language reveals intellect, intent and has context! If you said that to be funny: never mind!
I can't speak to what Face2face was referring to, but Isaiah 45:7 does refer to the Yahweh character claiming to have created evil. And since evil acts often times lead to the murder and death of humans, the connection can be made.
But the thing is, there are plenty of other Bible passages where the Yahweh character does specifically order the mass murder of entire towns, so, there is that.
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 says to slaughter an entire town if one person in it worships another god.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 says to kill your own family if they worship other gods.
Ezekiel 9:5-7 says to kill anyone in a town, men, women and children, if their forehead is not marked.
And those are just a small sample of murder ordered by Yahweh.
I can't imagine a worse universe, than one where this evil being actually existed. Too bad there are so many people on this planet who actually believe he does exist, and believe he is good.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 3:24 pm
And poor old Uzzah, killed for the crime of trying to stop the god-in-a-box from falling off its cart. Moral: don't bother helping anyone.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 5:13 pm
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2017 at 5:28 pm by Haipule.)
(November 21, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 1:14 am)Haipule Wrote: How in the HELL did you arrive at such nonsense from Isaiah 45:7? Are you a Hebrew speaker, or scholar? Or, did someone teach you how to be that brilliantly stupid? You shouldn't put words in God's mouth, or mind, He never said nor thought! In your defense, why not, everyone else does! And they went to school to learn how to be that BRILLIENTLY stupid! Language has rules! Language reveals intellect, intent and has context! If you said that to be funny: never mind!
I can't speak to what Face2face was referring to, but Isaiah 45:7 does refer to the Yahweh character claiming to have created evil. And since evil acts often times lead to the murder and death of humans, the connection can be made.
But the thing is, there are plenty of other Bible passages where the Yahweh character does specifically order the mass murder of entire towns, so, there is that.
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 says to slaughter an entire town if one person in it worships another god.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 says to kill your own family if they worship other gods.
Ezekiel 9:5-7 says to kill anyone in a town, men, women and children, if their forehead is not marked.
And those are just a small sample of murder ordered by Yahweh.
I can't imagine a worse universe, than one where this evil being actually existed. Too bad there are so many people on this planet who actually believe he does exist, and believe he is good. Yes, and God told King Saul to kill them all, men, women, children and animals. Saul disobeyed God and lost his life. And the throne of Judah and Israel was given to David who "Killed his tens of thousands".
The OT can be brutal. But with out Deuteronomy, I would have no clue how to handle my two wives 
Your confusing killing and "murder".
(November 21, 2017 at 3:24 pm)Cyberman Wrote: And poor old Uzzah, killed for the crime of trying to stop the god-in-a-box from falling off its cart. Moral: don't bother helping anyone. That "god-in-the-box", with is contents, dielectric and electric materials, gold cover, cherub wings and raised platform, was a super capacitor of immense power. I would've suggested not to touch it as well.
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 5:57 pm
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 6:01 pm
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2017 at 6:06 pm by Simon Moon.)
(November 21, 2017 at 5:13 pm)Haipule Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: I can't speak to what Face2face was referring to, but Isaiah 45:7 does refer to the Yahweh character claiming to have created evil. And since evil acts often times lead to the murder and death of humans, the connection can be made.
But the thing is, there are plenty of other Bible passages where the Yahweh character does specifically order the mass murder of entire towns, so, there is that.
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 says to slaughter an entire town if one person in it worships another god.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 says to kill your own family if they worship other gods.
Ezekiel 9:5-7 says to kill anyone in a town, men, women and children, if their forehead is not marked.
And those are just a small sample of murder ordered by Yahweh.
I can't imagine a worse universe, than one where this evil being actually existed. Too bad there are so many people on this planet who actually believe he does exist, and believe he is good. Yes, and God told King Saul to kill them all, men, women, children and animals. Saul disobeyed God and lost his life. And the throne of Judah and Israel was given to David who "Killed his tens of thousands".
The OT can be brutal. But with out Deuteronomy, I would have no clue how to handle my two wives
Your confusing killing and "murder".
If people are ordered to kill other people just for believing in the wrong god, that is murder. There, I figured out the difference.
Saul was disobeying an immoral order.
Quote:That "god-in-the-box", with is contents, dielectric and electric materials, gold cover, cherub wings and raised platform, was a super capacitor of immense power. I would've suggested not to touch it as well.
Someone has been watching a few too many 'ancient alien' shows...
But even if that is true, your omnipotent god could not come up with way to protect his 'chosen people' from shock from a charged capacitor? We humans have no problem with that task, why did god?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 6:13 pm
Besides which, it's not even what the story says:
"And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him. And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzza: wherefore that place is called Perezuzza to this day."
Nothing about any health & safety breaches. Yahweh got super-pissed-off at his disobedience and killed him.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 6:43 pm
Don't mess with atheists:
we'll eat your baby.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 7:21 pm
"But even if that is true, your omnipotent god could not come up with way to protect his 'chosen people' from shock from a charged capacitor? We humans have no problem with that task, why did god?"
He did have a way, He said, "Don't touch it!"
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 7:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2017 at 8:02 pm by Simon Moon.)
(November 21, 2017 at 7:21 pm)Haipule Wrote: "But even if that is true, your omnipotent god could not come up with way to protect his 'chosen people' from shock from a charged capacitor? We humans have no problem with that task, why did god?"
He did have a way, He said, "Don't touch it!"
That's laughable!
Compared to your god, as the myth tells it, humans have a miniscule amount of the understanding, knowledge, forethought, etc, etc as Yahweh has. He should have known (before he even made us...omniscience, right?) that an event like the one that happened to Uzzah would happen. And poor Uzzah was just trying to protect the Ark from falling.
And why does Yahweh actually get angry? How could a being that is supposedly omniscient, get angry? Anger comes from an event not going the way one thought it would. Doesn't EVERYTHING happen according to Yahweh's plan?
"I did have a way to keep my 7 year old son from shooting himself with my gun. I told him, don't touch it".
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Messin' With Atheists
November 21, 2017 at 8:01 pm
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2017 at 8:02 pm by Cyberman.)
It's even worse than that. The way the mythology tells it, you've told your seven-year-old not to touch your gun; then after he disobeyed, as you knew he would, you shot him with it.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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