Verse 42:23 and how to interpret it, disciplines of interpreting Quran.

[CapnAwesome]

The Qur'an is a long super boring book with such loose structure and over emphasis on metaphor and poetry that it can mean whatever you want it to.

That being said, I do think you can glean some of how Muhammad (piss be upon him) interpreted it based on his own actions in his life, in which case ISIS seems like the closest to how he lived his life.

[Mystic]

The way to truth and way to the source, if you can't find him, at least don't claim to the means to the truth and that your analysis of life and our nature, is the truth.

If the way to the truth and it's designated family, if the holy revelation of God and the family of that revelation, if they are not Mohammad and his holy family, then seek and ask the family of the reminder of the time, there surely will be another designated family.

But I swear CapnAwesome, you want to make it personal against Mohammad, but it's rather the proofs and signs of God you have issue with in the first place.

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MK, so what? You are STILL stuck in the same boat as any Jew or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist.

Religions almost all claim to be guidance, and assume most of that guidance is from God,  I don't believe any guidance but that is from God. And I don't believe any leader but the designated names of God, the ones who are instances of his holy spirit he has chosen for himself, and are the anointed Kings.

If I have the wrong Leaders, and the wrong chosen family, and the wrong reminder,  than still, I must find God's light, his reminder, his anointed champion leader and king, and the holy family of his revelation to understand his revelation.

And the logical framework is not to mix leaders that are not appointed by God with the pure streams from God that God went out of his way to manifest their purity.

And May God bless all chosen families of the reminders with special thanks and blessings to Mohammad and his family.

[Brian37]

Yea because my art a challenge to old mythology, not an endorsement of old mythology.

The thing is sometimes we need a snap shot of time before we corrupt all meanings of ancient words and throw them out of the context of their origin and what they meant to humans back than. I feel Quran as a seal of revelations from God,  and a means of uniting humans on one revelation that designates their proper authorities and leaders in religion and journey to the Sacred Creator of all things, not only is a guidance but a means of holding on to language and terms that humans and Jinn are doing their best to cause humanity to forget.

What is goodness but love of those designated to channel the light of the source to us, and loving the light of God and his light in creation thereby as it's meant to be loved, not making it in our own desires but recognizing it for what it is.

What is goodness but knowing who God is and who we truly are through the witnesses appointed to manifest the vision of God towards ourselves and a vision towards himself.

May God make us submit to guidance from him which is the only true guidance and turn away from dark avenues and conjectures and desires leading away from the source of all greatness and goodness.

Still not getting it.

Nobody knew shit back then, not Muslims, not Buddhists, not Jews, not Hindus not Christians. Just like the Mayans, and ancient Greeks and Romans and Egyptians. NOBODY knew, or could have known, back then, what we know now.

Religion started as a very ignorant way humans made guesses. HUMANS make up God/gods/deities and religions, NOTHING MORE.

There is no Allah, no Yahweh, no Jesus, no Vishnu and Buddha was not the inventor of wisdom.

Nobody is singling you out MK. Our entire species worldwide back then was scientifically ignorant. 

Nobody sky wizard is helping us. If humans want to do good, and problem solve and extend our finite ride, we'd do far better to GROW UP, and ditch the bad claims of the past.

WE PROMISE MK, nobody is going to burn you in hell because no such place exists. There is no heaven or God either. 

THE GREAT THING about accepting reality, is that you don't have to defend old mythology. And you don't have to live in fear of a fictional hell either. If you accept reality it means you are free from bad claims.

[Mystic]

Nobody knew shit back then, not Muslims, not Buddhists, not Jews, not Hindus not Christians.

Again, all the good reason to take a snap shot of time, that people did know a lot, and Quran even claims the polytheists knew a lot, the pagans knew a lot, they just mixed with garbage and confused their spirituality with their dark desires.

It was not that there were no hidden world nor that there was no magic or hidden beings or a gather of hidden beings and humans or powers of hidden beings that may seem like miracles to some, but, it was clear clarification that if we truly seek guidance and what is goodness but following guidance, than the guidance of God is the guidance, and for every people there is a guide, and God manifests that guide through a revelation, and that revelation is manifested through a founder who explains it, and anoints navigating captains of a ship to be sailed by his name, that further explain and make people understand the word of the founder, which is an explanation of the book of God.

And there is no power or will except by God, and by his name are all things illuminated.

[purplepurpose]

MK, why God is blackmailing people with hell? Why all that beautiful talk spins around such craziness?

[WinterHold]

I already showed other wage verses, and how they relate to 42:23.

Aside from looking at the context of those verses, is the issue of chosen family in Quran. Among the verses is 3:33.

The concept of chosen family is emphasized through out Quran.    Aside from that is the issue of love.

The Quran doesn't say people don't worship God or love his nearness. It's just that they worship Satan and their dark illusionary selves and others a long with God and equate in value others with God. Aside from that, is how monotheistic communities worship their leaders while deceiving themselves they are devoted to God in worship alone.

The Quran talks about how Adam was a means to knowledge for the Angels, knowledge of the names.  The chosen ones were similarly a way to recognize God, and the discussion revolving around the name of God shows God appoints a means to him.

The Quran in 25:57 is saying the wage is for who wants to, to take a path to their Lord.  The wage therefore is not the love of closeness (to God) as some people assert as the one being asked is the one who already wants to take a path to God, and he asks the wage therefore for those who already love nearness to God and believe in the message, and disbelievers are only required to pay the wage once they accept the Messenger out of gratitude and recognition of the great gift the near kin are.

The word Al-Qurba given how much Quran has emphasized on the concept of chosen family and chosen offspring, is surely about that. And it surely saying that the family of the reminder, those designated as God's beautiful names and are all instances of his great name, God is designating them as the means of being grateful for the message and showing appreciating the message, and that attaching them is so who wants to take a path to himself.

Another verse is "whatever wage I have asked it is for yourselves", there is no need of clarifying that the wage is for ourselves if it meant love of our own kin or closeness to God, but as it's the near kin of Mohammad, some people might think he is favoring his kin over others.

But it's saying in fact it's a reminder and for who wants to, to take a path to their Lord, that it is in fact for our own selves, and for our benefit.

We will see the context of the 42:23 within the Surah later as well as the other wage verses.  But before that, I will go into a discussion regarding Jesus and the word of truth that people differ and dispute regarding.

In the word of light that God has brought to life lies the gnosis of Quran and what goodness and morality is.

Among the things 42:23 is saying in the line "whoever does good we will increase them therein" is that love of the means to God and connection to God and the name of God and the channels of light of God by which God connects the believers to himself, is the heart and essence of what goodness is.

And if we think about love, it's away misdirected and people instead of recognizing God for who he is, make him according to their dark idol and desires. This is saying love those who manifest God, those who are instances of his name and holy spirit, all intending by that love to appreciate the message and take a path to God.

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Trolling level: 10 out of 10

[Mystic]

MK, why God is blackmailing people with hell? Why all that beautiful talk spins around such craziness?

The reason is quite simple, he is compassionate and is using their own god they made (we care about ourselves more than anything else) to free them from that idol, into the love of God through the path of love of those designated as the beautiful name of God, the family of the reminder.

He wishes to reverse their diseases through their disease.  And if we hate God to the extent we don't care if we go to hell or not and won't cease our rebellion to the proofs of God that God has taken upon himself to manifest and show, that is some next level of evil.

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The creed is "the guidance of God is the guidance" and the compassion of God to that degree is to manifest his guidance "say the hiding (of the sign) is for God so wait we too are of those who wait" and "for every people there is a guide", and that guide is name of God (Samuel means name of God), "by the name of God is it's sailing and anchoring" and the number of the creed is Twelve "And we took the covenant of the children of Israel and raised from them Twelve Captains..." and to mix leaders not appointed by God is disbelief "Do they have a share in the authority" but rather such authority belongs to the chosen family of the reminder of which a past instance was the family of Abraham "Do they envy the humans for what God has given them out of his grace? So we gave the family of Abraham the book and wisdom, and gave them a great authority". And said "O you who believe obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the Authority from you", and among the things we dispute and God knew would be a primary dispute in religion if things went wrong is primarily who these leaders are, referring to God means of the clear signs in Quran and the Sunnah means agreed upon Sunnah because the disputes aren't about which movie we should watch or something like that but that which pertains to obeying God and obeying the Messenger and those who possess the Authority from us, and indeed, all of that is matter of safety and fear, "you are but a warner", and "And if a matter of safety and fear comes to them they spread it abroad and had they referred to the Messenger or to the Possessors of the Authority from them...." and May God guide our hearts to the family of the reminder, those designated each to be the beautiful name of God, "In houses God has permitted to be risen and his name remembered therein" and attach ourselves to them and call God through them, and Worship God and seek his help through them, and love humans and his creation through them, "Say: no wage do I ask except who wants, to take a path to their Lord", as loving nearness to God is already given to the one responding to the wage, Al-Qurba doesn't mean nearness (to God) as some people assert as that is implied already as the want of the want who would respond to the wage in 25:57, but rather the whole emphasis and context of Quran and the Surah it is in and the flow, shows, 42:23 is about the near kin of Mohammad the seal of the Prophets, and it also means what is goodness but loving the true means of appreciating and loving God and his creation, those who are channels of his and are morality and it's command, they who guide by God's command. And those who heart shiver in awe and crave God's appointed King when he says "Indeed I am making you a Leader for humans" and turn aside from the Jibt and Taghut lest they value obedience to them as much as obedience to God, and set up rivals to God, may they all enter heaven and may God include me among them and among their servants who serve such honorable believers.

[Brian37]

Nobody knew shit back then, not Muslims, not Buddhists, not Jews, not Hindus not Christians.

Again, all the good reason to take a snap shot of time, that people did know a lot, and Quran even claims the polytheists knew a lot, the pagans knew a lot, they just mixed with garbage and confused their spirituality with their dark desires.

It was not that there were no hidden world nor that there was no magic or hidden beings or a gather of hidden beings and humans or powers of hidden beings that may seem like miracles to some, but, it was clear clarification that if we truly seek guidance and what is goodness but following guidance, than the guidance of God is the guidance, and for every people there is a guide, and God manifests that guide through a revelation, and that revelation is manifested through a founder who explains it, and anoints navigating captains of a ship to be sailed by his name, that further explain and make people understand the word of the founder, which is an explanation of the book of God.

And there is no power or will except by God, and by his name are all things illuminated.

No. NO THEY DID NOT!

MK our species 200,000 years ago was in our modern forum, but 200,000 years go, we had no writing, no cities, no technology. WE WERE IGNORANT as a species.

Our curiosity WAS NOT MAGICALLY, or divinely handed down to our species, BY ANY DEITY OR GOD/S.

Scientists NOW KNOW from evolution life seeks patterns, EVEN OTHER MAMMALS. We see other mammals such as chimps and elephants USE tools, such as sticks and rocks to get to food. 

Our EVOLUTION lead us to language and cities, not a sky wizard. 

There is no such thing as "revelation". Nobody has, is or ever will talk to a non existent being. OUR species is alone, there is no God or gods helping us. It should not frighten you to accept that. You already do fine without believing in Thor or Apollo.

[Minimalist]

The thing is sometimes we need a snap shot of time before we corrupt all meanings of ancient words and throw them out of the context of their origin and what they meant to humans back than.

No we don't.  It is now the 21st century.  Why don't you join in and consign that silly book of bullshit to the dustbin of history.

[Mystic]

Love knows everything there is to know, God says love the family of the reminder for therein lies the remembrance of all that loves knows and "ask the family of the reminder if you do not know".

We were ignorant and had no means to knowledge in ourselves, but God provided us with reminders through Messengers and brought them out in forms of chosen families, and even manifested the wisdom of their number and designated a constant number of successors to the founder, and the reason is simple "so that they may understand my word" (Moses regarding Aaron) and knot on Moses tongue was due to ignorance of people and the propaganda they were use to hearing.