Trascending through time

[Little Rik]

Can anyone give me an update on Little Rik? Is he one of the few believers in the forums trying to convince people atheism is wrong?

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I'm rather new to the phenomenon that is Little Rik. But his reputation preceded him, and I'm
learning fast. Still, I'm puzzled. He seems to argue for life after death, but his signature
suggests atheism. *shrugs*

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By going against the main stream is obvious
that I am not going to build much of a reputation
at least in the short term.
History however shows that in the long term things are different.
It is because most people behave like sheeps.

They are afraid of the unknown so they stick to the shepherd not knowing that the shephard will lead them to the slaughter house.

[vulcanlogician]

Oh well, if the consciousness dies when the body dies then we should change all theories regarding abstract things.
So far we knew that abstract things can not be touched, smelled, seen, heard and most of all killed.
Considering that consciousness is abstract by nature then she suppose to be immune from death but this theory is not longer valid because atheists think that the rule that applies to abstract things does not apply to consciousness.
We always learn something new, dont we?

How is consciousness an abstract thing? There is evidence that it has a tangible reality (ie qualia). Before you said that it was energy. Energy is not an abstract thing. It has a real existence and can be measured by scientists. So which is it? Conceptual or tangible?

No, I don't always learn new things, and I've yet to learn a single new thing since we started this debate (except about your process of reasoning). But I'm all ears if you care to enlighten me.

By going against the main stream is obvious
that I am not going to build much of a reputation
at least in the short term.
History however shows that in the long term things are different.
It is because most people behave like sheeps.

They are afraid of the unknown so they stick to the shepherd not knowing that the shephard will lead them to the slaughter house.

I'm enjoying myself (for the time being). Just FYI, I always make my own mind up about people. Tabula rasa, man. It's up to you to draw something interesting on it.

Ah, yes, the perils of conformity. You don't wan't to be a lemming... and you don't want to be a sheep. But then again, you don't want to go walk off a cliff because everyone else around you gathers around a shepherd. You may be a nonconformist in this case, but it doesn't demonstrate that you are any wiser than your brethren in the flock. Nonconformity for its own sake just isn't that impressive.

As Nietzsche put it: "Free from what?" Your eyes should tell me brightly, "Free for what!"

[Macoleco]

The ideas, thoughts and what we call "I" may be abstract, but the mind itself is not. It is the result of neural activity. If this activity disappears, so will the mind.

[vulcanlogician]

The ideas, thoughts and what we call "I" may be abstract, but the mind itself is not. It is the result of neural activity. If this activity disappears, so will the mind.

Just out of curiosity, where do you fit in this debate?

[Macoleco]

The ideas, thoughts and what we call "I" may be abstract, but the mind itself is not. It is the result of neural activity. If this activity disappears, so will the mind.

Just out of curiosity, where do you fit in this debate?

I firmly believe Little Rik is wrong in his perception and ideas, so I want to help him understand. Unless he can make me change my mind. Which I doubt.

[vulcanlogician]

Just out of curiosity, where do you fit in this debate?

I firmly believe Little Rik is wrong in his perception and ideas, so I want to help him understand. Unless he can make me change my mind. Which I doubt.

Yeah, I really don't know what his deal is, but his arguments are bad. His logic is bad and his premises are false. It doesn't get much worse than that. I considering reasons why this might be so.

1. English is a second language.
2. He is a child or teenager.
3. He is just starting to learn philosophy, so he's kind of in that "toddler" phase that all beginners go through.

If any of these things are true, I can say "Hey, Rik is alright." But if he's a grown-ass man, whose primary language is English, and he's been studying philosophy for years, then he needs to get some formal education, because the lack of it shows. Either way, it's intellectual exercise. At least he isn't spouting off about Kim Kardashian or some nonsense.

[Little Rik]

The only correct thing in your posts guys is that English is my second language.
All the rest is wrong.
Unfortunately intellectuals (atheists included) think that consciousness, mind and brain are the same thing or that consciousness is the product of the brain.
How foolish this idea can be considered that the brain is made of matter while the mind is not.
How can something inferior can give birth to something superior?
Have you ever seen a donkey give birth to a human?
You guys should start build up your intellect from the bottom, from simple things rather then trying to come from the top and pretending to know everything.

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The ideas, thoughts and what we call "I" may be abstract, but the mind itself is not. It is the result of neural activity. If this activity disappears, so will the mind.

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Sorry to tell you Mac but your confusion is really bad.
It is obvious that when the brain doesn’t work also the mind gets affected.
It is like when a driver try to travel in a vehicle that is faulty.
Surely the mind is dependent on the brain to function.
That doesn’t mean that vehicle and driver are the same thing or that when the vehicle rot away also the driver rot away.
Atheists are way way away from understanding how the whole system works.
Their understanding is still in the kindergarten of knowledge.

[vulcanlogician]

The only correct thing in your posts guys is that English is my second language.
All the rest is wrong.

Hey, Rik. Sorry man. I didn't mean to be condescending. I was thinking only one of those things was correct and that's cool... it turned out to be language. On the other hand, if I came off as blunt, tough titty, because you come off the same way  . 

Unfortunately intellectuals (atheists included) think that consciousness, mind and brain are the same thing or that consciousness is the product of the brain.
How foolish this idea can be considered that the brain is made of matter while the mind is not.

I don't think mind and brain are the same thing. Neither does any intellectual I know. There is a causal link between brain and mind. They are different entities. But they are not necessarily different substances. We don't exactly know what the mind is made of. Metaphysicians have struggled to understand for centuries (since Descartes' time). Baruch Spinoza thought mind and matter were two different attributes of the same substance, so to him mind was made of matter in a wierd sort of way. There is a causal link though. Do you deny this?

How can something inferior can give birth to something superior?

This question is extremely vague. It depends on what you mean. If you consider humans "superior" to single-celled organisms then, yes, through the process of evolution, over many generations, something inferior can give birth to something superior. To truly make a claim like this you need to have some sort of metric to gauge what is superior/inferior.

Have you ever seen a donkey give birth to a human?

Yes. More times than I can count. Next question.

You guys should start build up your intellect from the bottom, from simple things rather then trying to come from the top and pretending to know everything.

I agree with you here, and its rather presumptuous of you to think that I don't. We're in the philosophy forum aren't we? And that's what philosophy is all about.

[Haipule]

In case anyone cares: the bible states, in the Greek, that man has the ability of discernment. It does not say that man has a "conscience".

[Little Rik]

Unfortunately intellectuals (atheists included) think that consciousness, mind and brain are the same thing or that consciousness is the product of the brain.
How foolish this idea can be considered that the brain is made of matter while the mind is not.

I don't think mind and brain are the same thing. Neither does any intellectual I know. There is a causal link between brain and mind. They are different entities. But they are not necessarily different substances. We don't exactly know what the mind is made of. Metaphysicians have struggled to understand for centuries (since Descartes' time). Baruch Spinoza thought mind and matter were two different attributes of the same substance, so to him mind was made of matter in a wierd sort of way. There is a causal link though. Do you deny this?

According to yoga and to me everything is made of consciousness.
Matter is the most crude form of consciousness followed by plants, animals, human beings and God which is the supreme consciousness.
The brain is but a source of energy that consciousness use to expand.
The difference between brain and mind is that the brain is a like a vehicle while the mind is the driver.  

How can something inferior can give birth to something superior?

This question is extremely vague. It depends on what you mean. If you consider humans "superior" to single-celled organisms then, yes, through the process of evolution, over many generations, something inferior can give birth to something superior. To truly make a claim like this you need to have some sort of metric to gauge what is superior/inferior.

The issue was all about the fact that most atheists think that the consciousness is a product of the brain that is when I said that is wrong because something inferior can not give birth to something superior.
A brain without consciousness is a dead brain.
It just can not exist while a consciousness without a brain can as already proven by thousand of NDEs that show how the brain is inferior to the consciousness therefore it make impossible that the consciousness is a product of the brain.

Have you ever seen a donkey give birth to a human?

Yes. More times than I can count. Next question.

Well, in this case I must agree with you.  

You guys should start build up your intellect from the bottom, from simple things rather then trying to come from the top and pretending to know everything.

I agree with you here, and its rather presumptuous of you to think that I don't. We're in the philosophy forum aren't we? And that's what philosophy is all about.

Philosophy is not only about expanding the intellect.
Philosophy is rather love for knowledge.
Many people like to achieve knowledge just for adding more and more to what they already know just like a rich person would add more money to his bank account.
That is not in the spirit of philosophy.