Christianity a scam?

[Bow Before Zeus]

I have thought about this before and think the most likely scenario is the xtian religion arose as a monumental accident of chance. It could have been any of the thousands of false prophets of the time that could have become the dominant religion. It just happened to have been JC who was the chosen buffoon. This is adequately portrayed in the movie "The Life of Brian".

*bold mine

You have to love this historically and undisputedly accurate movie, only surpassed by the painstaking research that went into the 'Holy Grail'

And "The Meaning of Life" which is a far greater philosophical work than the bible itself! These guys were philosophical geniuses!

[Brian37]

Most scholars say Jesus existed. Ok but... I was thinking about the Bible. I've read the whole new testament and some parts of the old testament (probably 1/3 of it.)

I was thinking that maybe Jesus (the human prophet) staged all his miracles and made people believe he did all those things. His followers were religious zealots, so they helped him out. He probably paid someone to act as if they were blind/cripple/etc. and when he touched them, the person would have pretented he was cured. 

When he was executed for being a public annoyance, his followers removed his body from the tomb and made everyone believe he resurrected and went to heaven. Over time, the early christians wrote the new testament books and molded Jesus' story so he could fit the old testament's requierements for being the messiah. And that included the mistranslation of young woman = virgin. So Mary was in fact no virgin at all and had several children besides Jesus. And Joseph was Jesus' true father (or some other man.)

Jesus story was highly distorted and taken out of proportion by the time the new testament was written. I believe that Jesus was a normal person who used to preach to jews and was born of human parents. 

It makes sense. Jesus never revealed anything that we didn't already know. What's the meaning of life? Where do we come from? Where are we going? He didn't answer those questions. He just preached whatever he believed in when he was alive and that doesn't prove he was anything special, but people are so supertitious and gullible they bought his story. Jews know this, that's why they don't care about christianity. I feel so cheated I want my money back! lol. 

NO, most APOLOGISTS claim he did exist. 

Objective historians would only tell you an early movement existed, which is true, otherwise Christianity would not exist. What was never true are magic babies with super powers. Nor do humans survive rigor mortis.

I'd say the name, "Jesus" which was common back then, was slapped onto a person after the fact, just like any other mythology, it is looking backwards and creating an underdog story.  Someone did start a movement, but it was marketing after the fact that made it successful, not the magic bullshit claimed. Constantine should actually be considered the most responsible for the rise in popularity of Christianity.

But the hero underdog saving the day was a motif quite common in all of antiquity. The "sacrifice" motif simply got transferred from animals and deities to a human like figure. But it was hardly original outside of details.

Jesus did not exist, a human existed or group of humans who wanted to start a splinter sect of Jews because they didn't like some of the old ways.

[Drich]

Most scholars say Jesus existed. Ok but... I was thinking about the Bible. I've read the whole new testament and some parts of the old testament (probably 1/3 of it.)

1I was thinking that maybe Jesus (the human prophet) staged all his miracles and made people believe he did all those things. His followers were religious zealots, so they helped him out. He probably paid someone to act as if they were blind/cripple/etc. and when he touched them, the person would have pretented he was cured. 

2When he was executed for being a public annoyance, his followers removed his body from the tomb and made everyone believe he resurrected and went to heaven. Over time, the early christians wrote the new testament books and molded Jesus' story so he could fit the old testament's requierements for being the messiah. And that included the mistranslation of young woman = virgin. So Mary was in fact no virgin at all and had several children besides Jesus. And Joseph was Jesus' true father (or some other man.)

3Jesus story was highly distorted and taken out of proportion by the time the new testament was written. I believe that Jesus was a normal person who used to preach to jews and was born of human parents. 

4It makes sense. Jesus never revealed anything that we didn't already know. What's the meaning of life? Where do we come from? Where are we going? He didn't answer those questions. He just preached whatever he believed in when he was alive and that doesn't prove he was anything special, but people are so supertitious and gullible they bought his story. Jews know this, that's why they don't care about christianity. I feel so cheated I want my money back! lol.

 

Glob..
1Did you really read the NT? Jesus healed high profile cripples. men who have been crippled and begging at the gates of the temple their whole lives, and afterword they were sent to the preists to be certified. the same preists who hated Christ and looked to dismiss him/proove him to be a fraud. So when Jesus sent a known blind man to them you can be sure he had more than a simple eye test. or the men with leporcy and on and on. not to mention the thousands who wittnessed these things in the mega masses.

2Rome seal the tomb. this means there was a detachment of soliders set to watch the tomb, and if it got rob it meant their lives. (Virgin and Young woman Means the same doo-mas) A child was anyone from the age of 0 to 10 a young woman was between the age of 10 and her botmisva which happened after her first period.

While a "young woman could marry" (Which basically meant she was set head of the house hold and any servants or she prepaired everything herself/ but no sex) till she was "confirmed." or had her period which in the eyes of the law made her a woman.

If a young woman/virgin wound up prego even if she was married it would mean the husband would be stoned. So how could they ever know back then if Joseph and marry were telling the truth? The temple preists's wives would have checked marry out (hymen inspection) as a man's life hung in the balance. Word would have spread like wild fire in a case like this.

That said nothing in the bible says she remained a perpetual virgin once she pooped out her first kid she was no longer a virgin. and every kid after that was like anyone else.

3) except that is not what the historical record shows. You have to be literally creating your own narritive based on nothing, and choose to blindly accept that over what 10's of 1000's period manuscripts actually say.

4It makes sense. Jesus never revealed anything that we didn't already know.

Just the natre of Heaven and Hell, the purpose and point of atonement and established a way to heaven without having to 'earn it' through moral based living.

What's the meaning of life?

To decide where or not to serve God for eternity.

Where do we come from?

From the one who created us.

Where are we going?

We are but a vapor, here one moment and gone the next.

He didn't answer those questions.

Actually he kind did

He just preached whatever he believed in when he was alive and that doesn't prove he was anything special, but people are so supertitious and gullible they bought his story. Jews know this, that's why they don't care about christianity. I feel so cheated I want my money back! lol.

meh

[Mister Agenda]

It makes sense. Jesus never revealed anything that we didn't already know. What's the meaning of life? Where do we come from? Where are we going? He didn't answer those questions. He just preached whatever he believed in when he was alive and that doesn't prove he was anything special, but people are so supertitious and gullible they bought his story. Jews know this, that's why they don't care about christianity. I feel so cheated I want my money back! lol. 

  To say what you have means you haven't read any of the Bible, besides what do you think reading the Bible actually means and accomplishes?

GC

I've read the Bible cover-to-cover twice and the Gospels many times. I think Dnte makes a good point. Maybe you're really, really terrible at judging whether someone has read your favorite book or not. One thing reading it front-to-back accomplishes is making more Christians into atheists than any other single book.

[Minimalist]

1Did you really read the NT?

You know, dripshit, reading it is one thing.  Believing it is an accurate representation of anything is something far different.

You are too fucking stupid to ever comprehend the difference.  Now run along while the adults talk.

[Fake Messiah]

Most scholars say Jesus existed.

Yeah but what does that really mean? Most scholars say, and is frequently featured in the backside of newspapers, that Robin Hood existed as well as King Arthur and even Hercules, but only as people that may have inspired the myth. It's not like there was a real person living in Sherwood Forrest who hang out with Little John and Friar Tuck.

Interestingly enough Otto Rank and J.G. von Hahn made a Mythic Hero Archetype containing 22 typical recurrent elements drawn from comparative studies of Indo-European and Semitic hero legends. Which are good distinctions between mythical heroes and real historical persons.

These 22 distinctive mythical hero-type features are:
1 His mother is a royal virgin.
2 His father is a king or a god .
3 His parents are often near relatives to each other.
4 The circumstances of his conception are unusual.
5 He is reputed to be the son of a god.
6 An attempt is made to kill him usually by the father .
7 He is spirited away.
8 He is reared in a far country by foster parents.
9 We are told nothing of his childhood.
10 On reaching manhood he returns to his future kingdom.
11 Before taking a throne or a wife, he battles and defeats a great adversary such as a king, giant, dragon or wild beast .
12 He marries a princess often related to his predecessor .
13 He is crowned, hailed, or becomes king.
14 He reigns for a time uneventfully i.e., without wars or disasters .
15 He prescribes laws.
16 He later loses favor with the gods or his subjects.
17 He is driven from the throne and city.
18 He meets with a mysterious death.
19 Often, he dies at the top of a hill.
20 His children, if any, do not succeed him.
21 His body is not buried.
22 Nonetheless, he has one or more holy sepulchers

So when they compared these to mythical figures this was the tally:

1.  Oedipus (21)
2.  Tie: Theseus and Moses (20)
3.  Tie:  Dionysus and King Arthur (19)
4.  3-Way Tie: Perseus, Romulus, and (Javanese hero-king) Watu Gunung  (18)
5.  Tie: Hercules and (Welsh hero of the Mabinogion)
6.  Bellerophon (the Greek hero who captured Pegasus and slew the Chimera) (16)
7.  Tie: Zeus and Jason (of the Argonauts) (15)
8.  Tie: Osiris and (demigod hero of the Shiluk tribe of the Upper Nile) Nyikang (14)
9.  Tie: (legendary founder of the Olympic Games) Pelops and Robin Hood (13)
10. Tie: (Greek god of healing) Asclepius and Joseph, son of Jacob (guy with a coat of many colors) (12)

Raglan noted a remarkable fact: no undoubtedly historical hero, not even Caesar Augustus, managed to score more than six points on the scale; though he allowed perhaps seven in the case of Alexander the Great.

Interestingly Raglan didn’t dare put Jesus of Nazareth to the test, but we could. Why not? Jesus easily makes the top 20. There are only two elements that do not fit: number 3 His parents are often near relatives to each other and number 12 He marries a princess

Although when it comes to number 3 the later Christian infancy gospel, The Protoevangelium of James explicitly says that both are descended from King David and indeed some Christian denominations believe in that.

And when it comes to marriage it could be said that he is married allegorically, to the Church – which was both portrayed as his bride and the "daughter" of his predecessor (the nation of Israel).

[chimp3]

One thing for sure! Even if an individual named Jesus lived, he did not turn water into wine, heal leprosy with a touch, raise a dead man from the dead , cast demons into pigs, be born of a virgin like a salamander, die and return to life only to levitate into the sky of an earth centered universe. If you you believe those things:Grow up!

[Minimalist]

Interestingly Raglan didn’t dare put Jesus of Nazareth to the test, but we could.

Richard Carrier did, in On The Historicity of Jesus.

The conclusion?  Mythic bullshit.

[Godscreated]

  To say what you have means you haven't read any of the Bible, besides what do you think reading the Bible actually means and accomplishes?

GC

I've read the Bible cover-to-cover twice and the Gospels many times. I think Dnte makes a good point. Maybe you're really, really terrible at judging whether someone has read your favorite book or not. One thing reading it front-to-back accomplishes is making more Christians into atheists than any other single book.

Wrong, the world is full of people you do not know.

GC

[Catholic_Lady]

I was thinking that maybe Jesus (the human prophet) staged all his miracles and made people believe he did all those things. His followers were religious zealots, so they helped him out. He probably paid someone to act as if they were blind/cripple/etc. and when he touched them, the person would have pretented he was cured. 

When he was executed for being a public annoyance, his followers removed his body from the tomb and made everyone believe he resurrected and went to heaven.

Sounds a bit conspiracy theoryist to me.

Imho, it makes more sense to think the miracles were made up somehow and never actually happened than to think they were all staged in some sort of elaborate hoax.

Furthermore Jesus' disciples willingly died horrible deaths for Him. I don't see them having done so if they thought he was a fraud.