Christianity is Dead, Long live the rEvolution!

[Mister Agenda]

Yet hundreds of millions of Christians keep trucking along blithely while also accepting evolution. Report's of Christianity's death seem somewhat premature. A religion is its people, not its books, and if the people change their minds, the books can be squeezed into the new worldview.

[KevinM1]

1. Does the evidence suggest Christianity "is dead". An emphatic no. There are more Christians (both as a % and in real numbers) than there ever were in the history of the world. Even funnier is that atheism is declining and expected to continue to decline. These are the facts 150 years (6 generations) AFTER Darwin. Kind of throws your whole premise out the window. 

'Decline' is a provocative word. There are more atheists now than there have ever been. It's just that Christians:

1. Out-breed us
2. Actively proselytize, especially in areas with poor education... it's no surprise that projections show that by 2050 ~40% of all Christians will be from sub-Saharan Africa

So, please, don't (yet again) paint it as though that atheism is somehow losing. Or, like you always do, try to equate numbers with the veracity of the belief in question. You're a broken record at this point, and no matter how often you repeat yourself, the idea is still fallacious.

[Abaddon_ire]

It is true that religion provides things like comfort and many won't give up religion because of that comfort. But less and less young people are religious mostly because of the proliferation of education. The more knowledgeable one is, the less likely one needs a crutch like religion. Many of the young well educated realise that science contradicts much of what religions teach so they are less inclined to get involved. Yesterday I saw some footage on the news of a church and the vast majority of the poeple in the church were OLD. They had grey hair and looked like they did not have much longer to live. Once that generation is gone, religion will further weaken.

There are more and more religious people in the world every hour that passes. You are not getting your message out--you can't even keep up with the population growth!

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Everything in the bible starts as being literal. It was written that way. As science closes the gaps of knowledge, the god of the gaps gets smaller and smaller and "theologians" have to continually "reinterpret" their texts to still be relevant. So, only the core of "real xtians" will still interpret the bible literally as its writers intended.

George Orwell has shown that anything can be relabeled and reinterpreted. So war becomes peace and love becomes hate. After all, Ronald Ray-gun did name a nuclear weapon, the most destructive war of mass destruction the "Peacemaker"!!! So you can call Adam and Eve "Bill and Bob the flowerpot men" but your contortions will not get you out of the fact that xtianity has been proven to be a mythology.

You're really ignorant of that which you rail against. Augustine in the fourth century did not believe in a literal 6-day creation. Creationism is a relatively new side issue for Christians.  So, how does that fit into your premise? You have constructed a straw man and are beating it up. Congrats on that achievement.

What message would that be? Atheists do not have a message by definition.

The religious are a dying breed.

Why would anyone care whatever Augustine claimed, he was a primitive crank.

[SteveII]

1. Does the evidence suggest Christianity "is dead". An emphatic no. There are more Christians (both as a % and in real numbers) than there ever were in the history of the world. Even funnier is that atheism is declining and expected to continue to decline. These are the facts 150 years (6 generations) AFTER Darwin. Kind of throws your whole premise out the window. 

'Decline' is a provocative word.  There are more atheists now than there have ever been.  It's just that Christians:

1. Out-breed us
2. Actively proselytize, especially in areas with poor education... it's no surprise that projections show that by 2050 ~40% of all Christians will be from sub-Saharan Africa

So, please, don't (yet again) paint it as though that atheism is somehow losing.  Or, like you always do, try to equate numbers with the veracity of the belief in question.  You're a broken record at this point, and no matter how often you repeat yourself, the idea is still fallacious.

The truth of Christianity was not the topic. In the context of this thread, the numerical and percentage gains and losses are very much relevant: the facts indicate clearly that Christianity is not only not "dead" but is making significant gains. 

The world's population is expected to grow 32% in the next 45 years--by 2.3 Billion. In the same period, unaffiliated (of which only part are atheists) are expect to grow 35 Million. That's like a rounding error.  If you adhere to the typical 150 year old atheist assumption/prediction that education and science will eradicate or cripple religion and then it does not, in the marketplace of ideas, who's worldview do you think is losing? 

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There are more and more religious people in the world every hour that passes. You are not getting your message out--you can't even keep up with the population growth!

---

You're really ignorant of that which you rail against. Augustine in the fourth century did not believe in a literal 6-day creation. Creationism is a relatively new side issue for Christians.  So, how does that fit into your premise? You have constructed a straw man and are beating it up. Congrats on that achievement.

What message would that be? Atheists do not have a message by definition.

The religious are a dying breed.

Why would anyone care whatever Augustine claimed, he was a primitive crank.

BBZ seems to have a message: Science has killed Christianity. LOL

No, religion is not dying. If you think that, your are ignorant of cold hard facts. 

Augustine (one of the first hardcore theologians) not believing in a literal 6-day creation 1700 years ago kind of undermines the whole OP, don't you think?

[KevinM1]

'Decline' is a provocative word.  There are more atheists now than there have ever been.  It's just that Christians:

1. Out-breed us
2. Actively proselytize, especially in areas with poor education... it's no surprise that projections show that by 2050 ~40% of all Christians will be from sub-Saharan Africa

So, please, don't (yet again) paint it as though that atheism is somehow losing.  Or, like you always do, try to equate numbers with the veracity of the belief in question.  You're a broken record at this point, and no matter how often you repeat yourself, the idea is still fallacious.

The truth of Christianity was not the topic. In the context of this thread, the numerical and percentage gains and losses are very much relevant: the facts indicate clearly that Christianity is not only not "dead" but is making significant gains. 

The world's population is expected to grow 32% in the next 45 years--by 2.3 Billion. In the same period, unaffiliated (of which only part are atheists) are expect to grow 35 Million. That's like a rounding error.  If you adhere to the typical 150 year old atheist assumption/prediction that education and science will eradicate or cripple religion and then it does not, in the marketplace of ideas, who's worldview do you think is loosing? 

First, it's 'losing' not 'loosing'. I know it's a nitpick, but it jumped out at me.

Second, your image agrees with my assessment. The bulk of the gain is from population increase and from Christianity spreading to regions with poor education - Africa, parts of Asia, etc. China and Korea seem to be exceptions, but I cannot help but wonder if, like with the number of converts from Islam, it's more of a backlash to social pressures than anything else.

The fact is that Christianity is declining in the modern world. If I were a Christian, I'd be concerned about:

~40% of Christians living in Africa by 2050
Islam surpassing Christianity somewhere between 2050 and 2070

Spreading among the poor and uneducated is a loser's game. To use an analogy, think of American football. Christianity has the lead, but they're only scoring field goals, while Islam is scoring touchdowns. And while atheism may only be scoring safeties, they're still in the game.

[John V]

Charles Darwin's great work "The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection" was the nail in the coffin for the Christian religion.

Random thoughts on this:

1. I think you're giving Darwin way too much credit. Yes, evolution has had an effect on Christianity, but there are other factors as well.

2. It wouldn't surprise me if Christianity all but dies out. Jesus asked, When the Son of Man returns, will he find faith on the earth? Seems to be a rhetorical question indicating that no, there won't be much Christian faith left. I accept the rapture, but I think it will be a far smaller event than is sometimes portrayed in books and films.

3. Your view is mainly Western. Worldwide, by 2050 Christianity is supposed to still be the largest religion. In that time, unaffiliateds are projected to decrease. Islam is the big winner. People crowing now are going to be missing Christianity as Islam takes over.

[KevinM1]

3. Your view is mainly Western. Worldwide, by 2050 Christianity is supposed to still be the largest religion. In that time, unaffiliateds are projected to decrease. Islam is the big winner. People crowing now are going to be missing Christianity as Islam takes over.

In percentage, not raw population. For all the reasons I've mentioned twice now in this thread, and other times in other threads.

[SteveII]

The truth of Christianity was not the topic. In the context of this thread, the numerical and percentage gains and losses are very much relevant: the facts indicate clearly that Christianity is not only not "dead" but is making significant gains. 

The world's population is expected to grow 32% in the next 45 years--by 2.3 Billion. In the same period, unaffiliated (of which only part are atheists) are expect to grow 35 Million. That's like a rounding error.  If you adhere to the typical 150 year old atheist assumption/prediction that education and science will eradicate or cripple religion and then it does not, in the marketplace of ideas, who's worldview do you think is losing? 

First, it's 'losing' not 'loosing'.  I know it's a nitpick, but it jumped out at me.

Second, your image agrees with my assessment.  The bulk of the gain is from population increase and from Christianity spreading to regions with poor education - Africa, parts of Asia, etc.  China and Korea seem to be exceptions, but I cannot help but wonder if, like with the number of converts from Islam, it's more of a backlash to social pressures than anything else.

The fact is that Christianity is declining in the modern world.  If I were a Christian, I'd be concerned about:

~40% of Christians living in Africa by 2050
Islam surpassing Christianity somewhere between 2050 and 2070

Spreading among the poor and uneducated is a loser's game.  To use an analogy, think of American football.  Christianity has the lead, but they're only scoring field goals, while Islam is scoring touchdowns.  And while atheism may only be scoring safeties, they're still in the game.

I fixed "losing". Thanks. 

I am not contesting the statistics, I am contesting the inference from population statistics that there is an "education correlation". It seems you are relying on an atheist worldview assumption: science and education will defeat religion and not on actual data. Do you have data? Otherwise it's question begging.

[Bow Before Zeus]

Let me clarify he term "dead" I used in the title.

I did not say that belief in xtianity is dead. In fact, as many xtians here are very quick to point out, the religious hordes are actually increasing. Although, it should be noted that it's not happening everywhere, just in some of the most populous regions of the world. This makes for a great topic of discussion in itself so I will leave this for another thread.

What I meant by dead is that science has shown that the central premise on which xtianity is based is not valid. Jesus Christ is not the saviour of mankind. Therefore from 1859 onwards, xtianity changes from being a religion to a mythology. That fact that billions of hordes believe in the mythology is irrelevant. As a mythology, it is a dead religion.

[SteveII]

Let me clarify he term "dead" I used in the title.

I did not say that belief in xtianity is dead. In fact, as many xtians here are very quick to point out, the religious hordes are actually increasing. Although, it should be noted that it's not happening everywhere, just in some of the most populous regions of the world. This makes for a great topic of discussion in itself so I will leave this for another thread.

What I meant by dead is that science has shown that the central premise on which xtianity is based is not valid. Jesus Christ is not the saviour of mankind. Therefore from 1859 onwards, xtianity changes from being a religion to a mythology. That fact that billions of hordes believe in the mythology is irrelevant. As a mythology, it is a dead religion.

Okay, so you didn't mean "dead", you meant invalidated. Same thing.

But you still need to answer my second point: https://atheistforums.org/post-1674319.html#pid1674319