Porn, porn and more porn!

[LadyForCamus]

CL, are you telling me that you have never had a sexual fantasy about a man who wasn’t your husband?  Ever?!

My ex boyfriends before I met my husband, but that's it lol. I Have to actually really really like someone before wanting to have sex with them.

Not even a fantasy about a male celebrity, or TV show character you find incredibly hot?  Damn, woman!  I have had tons of...pleasurable alone time with me, myself, and Agent Fox Mulder over the years.  ??

[Aroura]

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My sex life is happy an healthy enough, I don't need to lecture others on how unhealthy thiers is.  They'll find out in due time.

[WinterHold]

[Jackie]

[The Industrial Atheist]

Everyone masturbates and most Christians have had premarital sex. They just say they don't do these things.

It's really dumb. The more you abstain the hornier you get and the more you think about sex. The more you think about sex the more guilty you feel about having lustful thoughts.

I actually think whoever made this stuff up just wanted it to be as miserable as possible to not be married so the maximum number of people would be reproducing.

No logical person, however would think it's possible to only have sexual thoughts about one person your entire life.

[John V]

I think in general all the animal instincts are covered by religious tenets.  The 7 sins are basically a list of motivated animal behaviors that, if they get out of control, become unproductive.

Sex is fine.  Get married, make babies, God approves.  Unproductive sex in any form is a waste of time and energy.
Eating is fine.  Eating far too much is unhealthy and inefficient of human resources, and is therefore proscribed against.

Of course, this all depends on the goal of maximizing efficiency and productivity, and not that of maximizing pleasure.

I disagree. Pleasure in the long term is maximized through control.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Everyone masturbates and most Christians have had premarital sex. They just say they don't do these things.

It's really dumb. The more you abstain the hornier you get and the more you think about sex. The more you think about sex the more guilty you feel about having lustful thoughts.

I actually think whoever made this stuff up just wanted it to be as miserable as possible to not be married so the maximum number of people would be reproducing.

No logical person, however would think it's possible to only have sexual thoughts about one person your entire life.

It is simply not true that abstinence results in a vicious circle of increasing lust. It is just like fasting there is period of intense hunger but in short order that goes away and is replaced by an abiding sense of calm.

Nevertheless I know that Western culture treats sexual desire as some uncontrollable compulsion. That belief is very insidious and has destroyed more social goods than expanded freedom. When those rivers are dammed we gain access to more power and prevent dangerous flooding.

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My sex life is happy an healthy enough, I don't need to lecture others on how unhealthy thiers is.  They'll find out in due time.

True enough. At the same time unhealthy messages about casual sex, serial monogamy, and their ubiquity can have widespread social consequences.

[henryp]

Again, im not talking about passing thoughts that are involuntary. I'm talking about actively visualizing a fantasy of having sex with someone who isn't your spouse.

I don't see this is being a difficult thing to abstain from doing, but I guess that's just because I have a completely different view of sex. I have no desire to do it with someone I don't care about, so there's no urge for me personally to fantasize about it. To me, sex is very much tied into love. I cant seperate the two even if I tried.

Honestly the thought of my husband fantasizing a 3some is probably even worse, even if I was involved. It just doesnt seem at all appropriate.

So the thing with fantasy, and why I brought up the 'lesbian loophole', is that fantasy doesn't necessarily involve having sex with someone who isn't your spouse.  I wasn't talking about imagining a 3some.  I was talking about him just imagining you with another woman.  Maybe just kissing.  Stuff like that can be enough.  Even less than that can be enough to find the book they're looking for in the self-help section.  Anything that is a turn-on can be used.  What if rather than lesbianism, it's you and Megan Fox playing beach volleyball for example?  Does he even like Megan Fox, or is that just a you thing?  

I'm not sure this is about your view of sex, as much as maybe it's about men vs. women.  I went to a catholic college with plenty of decent guys who I would be shocked to find any ever cheated on their wives, and I don't think any of them were 'fantasy' free.  Even the guy who became a priest liked to watch Baywatch. It's just hardwired in there.  

Just the bigger point though, is that for men, I'm not sure masturbating/fantasizing is exactly what you think it is or how the church characterizes it.  It seems like it'd be a shame for, what I think is a misunderstanding, to be something that could potentially cause you a lot of pain.

[Aroura]

[Catholic_Lady]

My ex boyfriends before I met my husband, but that's it lol. I Have to actually really really like someone before wanting to have sex with them.

Not even a fantasy about a male celebrity, or TV show character you find incredibly hot?  Damn, woman!  I have had tons of...pleasurable alone time with me, myself, and Agent Fox Mulder over the years.  ??

No lol. I think Chace Crawford is super good looking, but I have no desire to have sex with him (i dont even know him) so there's no urge to fantasize.

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Again, im not talking about passing thoughts that are involuntary. I'm talking about actively visualizing a fantasy of having sex with someone who isn't your spouse.

I don't see this is being a difficult thing to abstain from doing, but I guess that's just because I have a completely different view of sex. I have no desire to do it with someone I don't care about, so there's no urge for me personally to fantasize about it. To me, sex is very much tied into love. I cant seperate the two even if I tried.

Honestly the thought of my husband fantasizing a 3some is probably even worse, even if I was involved. It just doesnt seem at all appropriate.

So the thing with fantasy, and why I brought up the 'lesbian loophole', is that fantasy doesn't necessarily involve having sex with someone who isn't your spouse.  I wasn't talking about imagining a 3some.  I was talking about him just imagining you with another woman.  Maybe just kissing.  Stuff like that can be enough.  Even less than that can be enough to find the book they're looking for in the self-help section.  Anything that is a turn-on can be used.  What if rather than lesbianism, it's you and Megan Fox playing beach volleyball for example?  Does he even like Megan Fox, or is that just a you thing?  

I'm not sure this is about your view of sex, as much as maybe it's about men vs. women.  I went to a catholic college with plenty of decent guys who I would be shocked to find any ever cheated on their wives, and I don't think any of them were 'fantasy' free.  Even the guy who became a priest liked to watch Baywatch. It's just hardwired in there.  

Just the bigger point though, is that for men, I'm not sure masturbating/fantasizing is exactly what you think it is or how the church characterizes it.  It seems like it'd be a shame for, what I think is a misunderstanding, to be something that could potentially cause you a lot of pain.

Oh I see what you mean. Well he's not into the lesbian thing. He says it doesn't bother him or gross him out, but it's not particularly arousing either.

But if he was into that, then I guess it wouldn't be so bad for him to fantasize about me kissing another girl. Not ideal, imho, but it wouldn't upset me or make me feel crappy.

And to clarify about Megan, I think shes super beautiful and has the ideal look for a woman. As in, I wish I looked like her. But there's no sexual feelings towards her on my part lol. I'm straight and I don't even know her. As for Mr CL, he thinks she's pretty too (I've asked him). What crazy nut doesn't??

I think you are correct that men tend to be more inclined to separate sex with someone away from a loving connection to them. Especially the more animalistic part of them. But I still fully believe that many men are capable of associating sex with love completely. I'd say a man's ability to do that is partly genetics (he jas to be a sensitive, romantic type guy) and the other part how they were brought up to view sex. And of course, the desire to do so.

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I'll tell you what. It doesn't mean much having me sit here as a woman and speak for my husband. I'll see if I can have him come on sometime and explain his perspective. He's a super busy guy but I'll try to have him on tonight, if he agrees to it.