Men's Rights Movement

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

I just wish a lot of men would realize that flexing their masculinity muscles or chanting man up at grieving men is not cool. I've used to spend time around men's rights(more on that later) and what I noticed and what I found funny was women were not "against" the men's rights movement principles, once it was explained to them they actually sympathized a lot and supported it, the people that were very heavily against men's rights principles were usually other men. There is nothing wrong with a guy needing a little emotional support here and there, if you don't want to console then don't but if you invest your time to say something negative you are one true dip shit. All that being said, don't go to men's rights on reddit.

[shadow]

My opinion after watching it is that both men and women have certain (different) disadvantages in society, and that many feminist movements are out of line in making themselves the victims all the time and actually being against men.

Interesting thread.

Personally I'm not fond of any group that complains about small societal disadvantages - whenever I find myself disadvantaged I'll do what it takes to actually be competitive, not complain that society's structure doesn't favor me. Obviously there are some fights (like feminism before women could vote) that require institutional change to give people opportunity, but hard work is usually a surprisingly effective remedy at overcoming many inequalities. It also has the side effect of proving people's biases wrong, which effects change in its own right.

Whatever issue specifically you have with how society is trying to slot you - deviate there, and strongly, with enough effort that you actually aren't disadvantaged anymore.

[Catholic_Lady]

My opinion after watching it is that both men and women have certain (different) disadvantages in society, and that many feminist movements are out of line in making themselves the victims all the time and actually being against men.

Interesting thread.

Personally I'm not fond of any group that complains about small societal disadvantages - whenever I find myself disadvantaged I'll do what it takes to actually be competitive, not complain that society's structure doesn't favor me. Obviously there are some fights (like feminism before women could vote) that require institutional change to give people opportunity, but hard work is usually a surprisingly effective remedy at overcoming many inequalities. It also has the side effect of proving people's biases wrong, which effects change in its own right.

Whatever issue specifically you have with how society is trying to slot you - deviate there, and strongly, with enough effort that you actually aren't disadvantaged anymore.

I actually really like this message. You don't hear it much these days lol...

[downbeatplumb]

There's a woman in my role playing group who said that she is autistic. I wouldn't have realised otherwise. And not because i am unfamiliar with it.

The last DSM really broadened the definition, which makes people think there is a new surge in autism when, really its just a more inclusive diagnosis these days.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

I want to say two more things:

1) In a individualistic culture like that of the US, it is very normal for women to be feminists and men to be men's rights activists. It is even more normal for there to be more feminist men that men's rights women, the case of in group and or group bias is obvious within the genders (if you want to know more about it Google for "in group out group bias in women and men").

2) I want to address the "women were historically oppressed" point, I can't talk about more advanced civilized societies mainly because used to be a LOT of societies and societal norms in the past that it would be insane to draw a broad generalization on them all. The only thing I can address is the dynamics of the hunter gatherer societies where men were the hunters and women were the gatherers and caretakers of pretty much everything else. Think about it like this....if a man couldn't hunt he was done for, there was no safety net for men. If a woman couldn't hunt she could fall back on being the caretaker or gatherer, it was a privilege they had that men didn't. It wasn't that men who couldn't hunt couldn't do all the caretaker works or gatherer works, even physically weak men were still physically durable than women, it's just that because they weren't born women and couldn't bear children, they didn't have the same opportunity.

Bias is everywhere, all people will have some bias against some people. It's complete rubbish that women don't become as much as CEOs as men or, engineers or computer programmers as men because they're biologically not wired for it, it's also complete rubbish that it is because of systematic oppression. US is a cakewalk compared to other more traditional societies where sexual freedom among other freedom is limited for both men and women (if you are one of those people that believe patriarchal societies are cakewalk for boys but hell for girls, I'll explain a few incidents, there was a recent incident where a muslim boy loved a hindu girl and a extremist axed, torched and killed the boy on Facebook live. Another incident where a boy was beaten to death for loving someone's daughter, I still have it's video, where the girl's father is delivering full swing blows to the head of the naked body of the boy laying in public with the back of a axe and the body had finally stopped showing any signs of life), in high level patriarchal traditional societies there are actually more women engineers and doctors and such compared to light level patriarchal societies, so the simple answer is women don't pursue these professions in the US simply because they don't have to, US is not a poor country unlike other countries where the standard of living is much much lower so both women and men have to work hard to attain better quality of life.

[GrandizerII]

There's a woman in my role playing group who said that she is autistic. I wouldn't have realised otherwise. And not because i am unfamiliar with it.

The last DSM really broadened the definition, which makes people think there is a new surge in autism when, really its just a more inclusive diagnosis these days.

I disagree, they got rid of the specific diagnoses under ASD and made them all into one umbrella disorder, as far as I see.

But supposing Im wrong, then thats a good thing because like I said earlier, high functioning ASD can be a really invisible disorder, so its good to know experts are becoming more and more aware of this.

[Seraphina]

How did this thread wind up in the Off Topic "Open up to some light hearted discussion" forum? It belongs in the R'lyeh forum.

-Teresa

[Athene]

He literally called Thena a dipshit in like, his second or third interaction with her in this thread. And finished most of his arguements with some kind of personal attack.  I know it's atheist forums, and the standard for civility is not exactly a high one, but that should qualify.

To be fair, his dipshit comment came as a response to getting called one. His name wasn't used, but it seems he was exactly who was being talked about. Because it was referring to people who use the word egalitarianism, and he was the only one who had. It came off as a passive agressive jab at him personally. 

*highlighted for emphasis

Are you really this clueless, CL? 

Forget the fact that the word itself was indeed, mentioned several times BEFORE I posted in this thread. Do you not realize that the MRM pushes egalitarianism as the "righteous alternative" to feminism as part of its agenda? And that the philosophy of egalitarianism is frequently abused by MRMs in order to promote a misogynistic agenda, under the guise of "equality"? 
Now...do you even remember what the title of this, your very own thread is? Let me refresh your memory: Men's Rights Movement

Is any of this sinking in yet?

His name wasn't used because I was NOT referring to him, or egalitarians at large. In the post that he took such deep personal offense to, I was specifically referring to folks who utilize the term as a cover; in an effort to mask their intents to minimize/dismiss others, and/or general disinterest.

Unless he's identifies as THAT sort of individual, precisely, he had absolutely no reason to be up in arms.

Once I pointed that out, he responded with something along the lines of "No, no, no egalitarians don't, and never would do such a thing...How dare you! That can't happen....Not us!" As if egalitarianism, unlike ALL other doctrines in existence, possesses some sort mystical perfection that inhibits ANYONE who carries the title from misrepresenting themselves or having false intentions.

Responding to being passive aggressively called dipshit by calling that person dipshit in return hardly warrants being accused of being an alt right sympathizer. 

Keep in mind that I'm not the the only person in this thread who's made accusations. I was accused of being a member of the feminist Fringe/Extremist element by both Tibs and Shell, multiple times within this thread with absolutely no supportive evidence and apparently no reason, other then the pair THOUGHT I was "dissing" Tibs and/or the Blessed Altar of Egalitarianism. 

That being said, yes, I do believe my assessment of Tibs in regards to his being both an MRM and Alt Right sympathizer is correct. And whether you believe it or not, that was hunch I had well before this thread hit the forum. The "accusation" was in no way borne out of butthurt over name-calling. 

And unlike some folks, I actually made an effort to lay out my reasons as to WHY I feel it's actually warranted a couple of pages back.

Read it or don't. Feel free to disagree.

[Catholic_Lady]

Ok well I'm done taking sides between posters here. Obviously this thread got heated and personal, and the frustrating part is that it didn't have to. It seems we all mostly agree on the principles at hand, and are just getting upset over labels.

[Jello]

How did this thread wind up in the Off Topic "Open up to some light hearted discussion" forum? It belongs in the R'lyeh forum.

-Teresa

Who would have guessed that a topic that tends to be relatively controversial topic in the real world would be controversial online, right?


This thread shouldn't have been in the Off Topic section in the first place