GOP goes from "anchor baby" to "chain migration'.

[henryp]

I think far too many humans fail to see that this is not a flat surface we live on, it is a globe. While self preservation is evolutionary, it is still the same for everyone, and when we lose our compassion for others, that is when we start becoming cruel to each other.

You sort of figured it out.  Humans have been cruel to eachother since the beginning of time, because we are not all in this together.  It isn't 'team human.'  It's a nice sentiment, but nothing more.  

Because again, the question comes down to 'What are you willing to give up?' And the near universal answer is 'not very much.'

[The Grand Nudger]

This is a complex issue but the simple answer is that no alien has the right to bunk in America just because his own dump is a shit hole.  Our worthless Congress Critters are supposed to represent American citizens and not the other 7+ Billion people on this rock.  When the dummies allow the country to be flooded with aliens they are working against the citizens' interests and should be replaced.

Wrong, the 5th and the 14th say our congress critters -do- have a duty to represent any of those other billions found within our borders.  

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. [emphasis added]

IOW, all of the laws and processes that protect the residents of a gated white community from an ICE raid -also- protect the filthy browns in the ghetto.  Does that seem to be the case at present?  Even if the laws were crafted with unassailable parity (they're not), they would have to be enforced without notable inequality.......which they aren't.

These two clauses are the reason that trumps immigration shit keeps getting savaged in court - even when the plaintiffs are from not-america or acting on behalf of not-americans. It would be unconstitutional to deny them due process and equal protection.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

This is a complex issue but the simple answer is that no alien has the right to bunk in America just because his own dump is a shit hole.  Our worthless Congress Critters are supposed to represent American citizens and not the other 7+ Billion people on this rock.  When the dummies allow the country to be flooded with aliens they are working against the citizens' interests and should be replaced.

Wrong, the 5th and the 14th say our congress critters -do- have a duty to represent any of those other billions found within our borders.  

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. [emphasis added]

IOW, all of the laws and processes that protect the residents of a gated white community from an ICE raid -also- protect the filthy browns in the ghetto.  Does that seem to be the case at present?  Even if the laws were crafted with unassailable parity (they're not), they would have to be enforced without notable inequality.......which they aren't.

These two clauses are the reason that trumps immigration shit keeps getting savaged in court - even when the plaintiffs are from not-america or acting on behalf of not-americans.  It would be unconstitutional to deny them due process and equal protection.

The government didn't give a shit about enforcing those laws before so why should it start doing it now?  Deport all illegal aliens.

[The Industrial Atheist]

As it is, assuming they're speaking of Mexicans, and they almost always are, for the last several years we have had more undocumented Mexican immigrants leaving than coming in.

So what is all their fuss really about? I will say this, given those facts, it would be an unbelievably stupid waste of money to build a border wall.

[Sal]

Better the standards of living in their country of origin, rather than internalizing immigrants in your own country. Just an idea.

[Autumnlicious]

Why should we be the economic nanny to foreign powers?

Immigration feeds our industries. You're asking fundamentally for industry to divest from the U.S. and go somewhere else.

I would not have that, not even to satisfy the local homegrown racists. I'll leave that thankless and unending task to you.

If they want to be American, let them become American. If you learn our history, participate in our civic duties, pay our taxes, then you're doing more than our current population. Welcome.

[The Grand Nudger]

-and that;s the crux of it.  The conversation is often framed as "the problem of immigration" ignoring the reality of the matter at hand.  Immigration is a solution to our labor problem, and more than just a bandaid for funding when it comes to our social safety net.  This is ignoring cultural contribution entirely.

Immigrants literally make america great.  Without them, this place would be a real shithole. There are obviously geo-political benefits to being bordered by strong partner nations with decent living conditions..but, ultimately, if we were in it for numero uno we'd be making immigration to the US -more- appealing, not less.

[Brian37]

I think far too many humans fail to see that this is not a flat surface we live on, it is a globe. While self preservation is evolutionary, it is still the same for everyone, and when we lose our compassion for others, that is when we start becoming cruel to each other.

You sort of figured it out.  Humans have been cruel to eachother since the beginning of time, because we are not all in this together.  It isn't 'team human.'  It's a nice sentiment, but nothing more.  

Because again, the question comes down to 'What are you willing to give up?' And the near universal answer is 'not very much.'

Um no sorry.

It isn't a matter of "fuck you I got mine".

Humans are always going to be tribal to some extent, if you think I am denying that, that is just absurd.

I have consistently said that our species is capable of BOTH cruelty and compassion, so I am not ignoring anything.

I think you are falsely accusing me of wanting a utopia myself, and that is not what I am arguing.

Our species will give up it's longer ride if we all insist on making tribalism the focus. It isn't to claim you can create a perfect world. It is to say the world is way too small now, for us to ignore we are not a separate species.

I don't see what the problem should be with saying, we need to focus as a species more on our common condition as far as needs, and reducing pollution, famine, crime and war. I do think we are quite capable of that WHEN WE WANT TO MAKE THE EFFORT. It isn't to say we always do, just saying that is a better path. 

It still remains nobody is getting off this rock en mass in the near future.

[Jackalope]

As it is, assuming they're speaking of Mexicans, and they almost always are, for the last several years we have had more undocumented Mexican immigrants leaving than coming in.

So what is all their fuss really about? I will say this, given those facts, it would be an unbelievably stupid waste of money to build a border wall.

Indeed.

Also, I'm just gonna drop this here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_im...ted_States

From 2005 to 2009, the number of people entering the U.S. illegally declined by nearly 67%, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, from 850,000 yearly average in the early 2000s to 300,000.[30] The most recent estimates put the number of unauthorized immigrants at 11 million in 2015, representing 3.4% of the total U.S. population.[6] The population of unauthorized immigrants peaked in 2007, when it was at 12.2 million and 4% of the total U.S. population.[6][7]
Narrowing the discussion to only Mexican nationals, a 2015 study performed by demographers of the University of Texas at San Antonio and the University of New Hampshire found that immigration from Mexico; both legal and illegal, peaked in 2003 and that from the period between 2003 and 2007 to the period of 2008 to 2012, immigration from Mexico decreased 57%. The dean of the College of Public Policy of the University of Texas at San Antonio, Rogelio Saenz, states that lower birth rates and the growing economy in Mexico slowed emigration, creating more jobs for Mexicans. Saenz also states that Mexican immigrants are no longer coming to find jobs but to flee from violence, noting that the majority of those escaping crime "are far more likely to be naturalized U.S. citizens".[31]

Furthermore...

Research shows that illegal immigrants increase the size of the U.S. economy, contribute to economic growth, enhance the welfare of natives, contribute more in tax revenue than they collect, reduce American firms' incentives to offshore jobs and import foreign-produced goods, and benefit consumers by reducing the prices of goods and services.[7][12][13][14][15] Economists estimate that legalization of the illegal immigrant population would increase the immigrants' earnings and consumption considerably, and increase U.S. gross domestic product.[7][16][17][18][19][20]
There is no evidence that illegal immigration increases the rate of crime in the United States.[21] There is scholarly consensus that illegal immigrants commit less crime than natives.[22][23] Sanctuary cities – which adopt policies designed to not prosecute people solely for being in the country illegally – have no statistically meaningful impact on crime.[24] Research suggests that immigration enforcement has no impact on crime rates.[25][26][24]

So tell me again why this is considered such a big fat fucking problem that we need to build a wall on the border?

[The Grand Nudger]

So tell me again why this is considered such a big fat fucking problem that we need to build a wall on the border?

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