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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 7:16 pm
(January 30, 2018 at 7:01 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 4:36 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I mean, if he is atheist then of course he's not going to know it comes from a higher power. He doesn't think one exists in the first place.
Without knowing it comes from God, the person nonetheless recognizes that it is good. And can't something be said if they embrace it and choose to live by it?
What you are describing, CL, is an empty set. No atheist I know recognizes any kind of transcendent Good and thus there is nothing for them to embrace.
She didn’t say, “transcendent” though. She said, “good”.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 7:22 pm
I recognize all sorts of transcendent goods, the difference is that you use this word, Neo, as a placeholder for pixies. I take a decidedly less silly approach.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 7:52 pm
I'm not sure what transcendent good means, tbh. I googled it but didn't really come up with an explanation.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 8:11 pm
(January 30, 2018 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 7:01 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: What you are describing, CL, is an empty set. No atheist I know recognizes any kind of transcendent Good and thus there is nothing for them to embrace.
As an example, what about CD having started that fundraiser for the homeless in his area, and all the people here who donated for the cause...
I don't know who CD is but perhaps their motivation was nothing more than good old fashioned altruism.
"The quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others."
No god belief required.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 8:14 pm
.
How about we all (theists) just agree that we don't know who is going Hell and leave this matter up to God? From here on out, if any atheist asks me if I think they will go to Hell I will simply say it's not my placebo speculate.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 8:15 pm
(January 30, 2018 at 7:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm not sure what transcendent good means, tbh. I googled it but didn't really come up with an explanation.
I think he's talking about objective morality.
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 8:15 pm
(January 30, 2018 at 8:11 pm)Succubus Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As an example, what about CD having started that fundraiser for the homeless in his area, and all the people here who donated for the cause...
I don't know who CD is but perhaps their motivation was nothing more than good old fashioned altruism.
"The quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others."
No god belief required.
You're soooooo coooooool
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 8:22 pm
(January 30, 2018 at 8:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: .
How about we all (theists) just agree that we don't know who is going Hell and leave this matter up to God? From here on out, if any atheist asks me if I think they will go to Hell I will simply say it's not my placebo speculate.
But speculating is what you do best.
It's amazing 'science' always seems to 'find' whatever it is funded for, and never the oppsite. Drich.
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 8:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2018 at 8:55 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(January 30, 2018 at 8:15 pm)emjay Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 7:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm not sure what transcendent good means, tbh. I googled it but didn't really come up with an explanation.
I think he's talking about objective morality.
Oh. Well I was talking about objective good as well. The corporal works of mercy.
(January 30, 2018 at 8:22 pm)Succubus Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 8:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: .
How about we all (theists) just agree that we don't know who is going Hell and leave this matter up to God? From here on out, if any atheist asks me if I think they will go to Hell I will simply say it's not my placebo speculate.
But speculating is what you do best.
Sweet bro!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
January 30, 2018 at 9:17 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2018 at 9:46 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(January 30, 2018 at 4:20 pm)SteveII Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 3:55 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: What logical, rational reason would a person, born and raised into any specific relgion/religious doctrine, have to think that their religion is the wrong one, and someone else’s is the right one? Clearly no Christians here have ever given that serious consideration, so why would a Muslim or a Jewish person do so?
Like I said in another post: I think everyone has an obligation to seek out truth about God. There is excellent evidence that this desire is built into us. I personally am aware of the basics of all the worlds main religions. I find Christianity to be the most evidenced, most internally consistent, and most closely aligned with reality.
As part of that built in desire to seek out the truth about God, a Muslim would ask the same three things about Islam and he/she may find their native religions lacking (or maybe not). But the process requires you to at least ask the questions and to compare the religions. I think you are wrong that people do not question their religion (even Christians here). I think all people serious about whatever religion they follow ask hard questions.
So, then why would a so-called ‘just’ god, give an overwhelming advantage to a only fragment of the total population? I mean, not everyone on the planet has equal opportunity and resources to glean an education on world religion. So, we’re all judged equally, but some of us have the odds impossibly stacked against us, while others of us are just...lucky? Pretty unjust, and rather silly, I think.
(January 30, 2018 at 7:52 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm not sure what transcendent good means, tbh. I googled it but didn't really come up with an explanation.
You were saying “good” in a general sense, as in, atheists doing good things in life, and it being recognized by god. Neo was trying to insert objective good/objective morality into your statement, I think, so that he can say no atheists believe in such a morality. So, we’re fucked. ? If I believed in a god, it would be a god who judged us based on what we do in life, and how we treat people. Not this mobster-type guy from the Bible who says, ‘you’d better believe in me or else!’
(January 30, 2018 at 8:11 pm)Succubus Wrote: (January 30, 2018 at 7:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As an example, what about CD having started that fundraiser for the homeless in his area, and all the people here who donated for the cause...
I don't know who CD is but perhaps their motivation was nothing more than good old fashioned altruism.
"The quality of unselfish concern for the welfare of others."
No god belief required.
I do believe that is what she meant.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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