Fear of hell, advice please

[Jenny A]

The funny thing given Christian emphasis on it, is how very mentions of Hell there are in the Bible and how few actual descriptions of heaven. You'd think that if Jesus thought it were important he'd have said more about. Instead he blithers on about heaven on earth within the lifetime of those listening. Didn't seen to have happened did it?

[Fake Messiah]

Less agonizing melting in fire, I reckon.

Yeah but you still have to have a job. In the Bible it is said that people will be getting wages
Behold, I am coming soon, and I shall bring My wages and rewards with Me, to repay and render to each one just what his own actions and his own work merit. -- Revelation 22:12

Imagine living from paycheck to paycheck for whole "eternity"! No retirement just working or the god, driving some clunky car while some others are driving BMWs, Porches and a pool in their back yard. Private jets... Melting your face doesn't sound so bad. Not to mention how many times can you have your face melted?

I guess you have to work to pay off all that military budged for the huge army that is in Heaven:  "The armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses." -- Revelation 19:14

And not to mention they don't have those armies for no reason.

[c172]

Text walls are their own circle of hell.

[GrandizerII]

Hello,
I am not an atheist myself (I was raised heavily Greek Orthodox) in a Ukrainian-Romanian family. We are incredbily religious, and my grandfather in fact is a Priest. My parents are hoping I will be the same. For those who do not know, Orthodox priests are allowed to marry, so I am also expected to have children and raise them religious, etc. Recently, I've been having doubts about religion, but fear of hell makes it difficult to let go of the religion.
Everytime I show any signs of skepticism, my friends and family try to prove Christianity at the bear minimum to be correct. I get emails all the time from people showing me how Jesus is the way to eternal pleasure and not following will lead me to torture forever. I recently viewed a few Near Death Experience videos, and they come from Christian sources, they have testimonies of people who went to hell when they were close to death. One Near Death Experience of a woman who crashed her car into another scared me: she had a head on crash, suddenly, felt a feeling of falling, and saw complete blackness. Then she saw these tall demonic looking monsters who took her to some waiting room where she saw them torture other people, beating them up, mocking them, throwing spears at them,  and her hands were bleeding. Suddenly, she found herself in her car, she said she could see the blood on her hands from the hell for about 10 seconds. There are a whole plethora of these testimonies, and the similarities are uncanny. The most common sequence of events: the person having the experience sees darkness, then they see flames and fire, then demonic creatures come who look like reptiles with horns and mock them, beat them up, swear, and they can hear other screams. Then, sometimes the experiencer calls out to God, and a huge hand comes down and pulls them out of the hell, and back to their bodies. I know that these people never actually died, because a near death experience isn't a death experience, I also know the brain is not reliable as a source when it is super stressed and malfunctioning. Not even all of these people were near death during these experiences. Some were on drugs, others were not. You would think different situations would trigger different experiences. It's just that the good majority of hell Near Death Experiences occur in the order I put out. Growing up, I never expected to see demons torturing people in hell, and it seems many people report that. I can't fully explain it. The church and bible do not teach about seeing demons in hell, yet somehow all these people hallucinate that? Anyhow, do these similarities amongst accounts scare any of you? I would just really like to get rid of this whole hell fear.  People in my communities act ad though I should be following these experiences, do you guys think I should be putting this much stock into the experiences?

I was raised an Orthodox Christian, and I can definitely tell you I believed demons did torture people in hell as I was growing up. The similarities you see are selective, rooted in perhaps the same culture, and you're just not zooming out enough to see what's happening at the global scale.

[orthodox-man]

Hello,
I am not an atheist myself (I was raised heavily Greek Orthodox) in a Ukrainian-Romanian family. We are incredbily religious, and my grandfather in fact is a Priest. My parents are hoping I will be the same. For those who do not know, Orthodox priests are allowed to marry, so I am also expected to have children and raise them religious, etc. Recently, I've been having doubts about religion, but fear of hell makes it difficult to let go of the religion.
Everytime I show any signs of skepticism, my friends and family try to prove Christianity at the bear minimum to be correct. I get emails all the time from people showing me how Jesus is the way to eternal pleasure and not following will lead me to torture forever. I recently viewed a few Near Death Experience videos, and they come from Christian sources, they have testimonies of people who went to hell when they were close to death. One Near Death Experience of a woman who crashed her car into another scared me: she had a head on crash, suddenly, felt a feeling of falling, and saw complete blackness. Then she saw these tall demonic looking monsters who took her to some waiting room where she saw them torture other people, beating them up, mocking them, throwing spears at them,  and her hands were bleeding. Suddenly, she found herself in her car, she said she could see the blood on her hands from the hell for about 10 seconds. There are a whole plethora of these testimonies, and the similarities are uncanny. The most common sequence of events: the person having the experience sees darkness, then they see flames and fire, then demonic creatures come who look like reptiles with horns and mock them, beat them up, swear, and they can hear other screams. Then, sometimes the experiencer calls out to God, and a huge hand comes down and pulls them out of the hell, and back to their bodies. I know that these people never actually died, because a near death experience isn't a death experience, I also know the brain is not reliable as a source when it is super stressed and malfunctioning. Not even all of these people were near death during these experiences. Some were on drugs, others were not. You would think different situations would trigger different experiences. It's just that the good majority of hell Near Death Experiences occur in the order I put out. Growing up, I never expected to see demons torturing people in hell, and it seems many people report that. I can't fully explain it. The church and bible do not teach about seeing demons in hell, yet somehow all these people hallucinate that? Anyhow, do these similarities amongst accounts scare any of you? I would just really like to get rid of this whole hell fear.  People in my communities act ad though I should be following these experiences, do you guys think I should be putting this much stock into the experiences?

I was raised an Orthodox Christian, and I can definitely tell you I believed demons did torture people in hell as I was growing up. The similarities you see are selective, rooted in perhaps the same culture, and you're just not zooming out enough to see what's happening at the global scale.

thanks for the response, in that case, maybe it's safe to assume that if you were under complete stress, potentially dying, brain malfunctioning, that you would also see a hell with demons running around torturing people.

[purplepurpose]

Christians claim routinely that end of the days date has been given them by God. Date comes - nobody loses credibility and we get dozens of end days dates from the same people. There are cases where xtians say they lied about NDE experience. You can lie as much as you like as xtian if you are good at it, because it brings more sheep.

[GrandizerII]

I was raised an Orthodox Christian, and I can definitely tell you I believed demons did torture people in hell as I was growing up. The similarities you see are selective, rooted in perhaps the same culture, and you're just not zooming out enough to see what's happening at the global scale.

thanks for the response, in that case, maybe it's safe to assume that if you were under complete stress, potentially dying, brain malfunctioning, that you would also see a hell with demons running around torturing people.

In the case of brain malfunctioning, it's possible, but how likely, who knows. The brain does have such images stored somewhere in it.

You also need to keep in mind the credibility of the sources you have access. You can't trust everything you read/hear. Discernment is always a good thing.

[orthodox-man]

Thanks to all replies, Jenny A, Simon Moon, Fake Messiah, Hammy, Grandizer, Lutrinae, Napoleon, etc. It will take a while to try and overcome this battle of fear (I may never fully beat it), but it is nice to know that some people don't take these claims as seriously as people in my circles. I have a really hard time explaining NDEs away. I don't think lack of oxygen cuts it, as people who have perfect levels of oxygen in their brains can have NDEs under different circumstances ex: jumping off buildings, almost getting into a car accident, etc. I also think some of the current scientific theories are not adequate enough to explain why they feel so real to people, and so vivid when the brain is in such a bind. People report organized thinking, the kind that even dreams doesn't usually have. That said, I also cannot agree with NDE researchers who claim it is a preview of afterlife either. Even if we don't have a completely coherent argument for what causes NDEs, we cannot conclude that it is a soul leaving a body that hasn't died, and then coming back with lucid thoughts. I think more experiments need to be done. However this is kind of a question I also had I would love some opinions on:

Many NDE researchers who believe NDEs are supernatural, claim that in some cases, NDEs differ slightly from person to person, because each person has a unique soul, and each experience makes sense differently to each person. Therefore, a Hindu person living in India will likely not report seeing Jesus in an NDE, while a Christian person living in USA will. They have noticed that Jesus' appearance in NDEs tends to fluctuate to, sometimes he is said to have dark hair, olive skin, sometimes he looks like traditional paintings, other times not. They say, each person sees him differently, as that is how they imagine him, and they wouldn't be able to recognize him portrayed any other way. My question is: would you say it is more likely that differences in NDEs point to people hallucinating slightly differently, or is it actually some supernatural experience that is customized for each person?

Recently, a study was done on 150 NDEs in Belgium, and found that out of 10 potential common phenomena in NDEs ex: a bright light, meeting deities, life review, seeing a tunnel, out of body experience etc, about 4 were mentioned per average NDE, and the order of them differed. So for example, only around 35% had the order of: OBE, tunnel, bright light, feeling of peace, returning to body, while another percentage had another order etc. Do these inconsistencies make the whole phenomenon seem less reliable? Researchers say no, that again, each person has a unique experience specifically for them the way they understand it, like for example: going to Africa: you could go to North Africa, or South Africa, and see different things, yet both locations are in Africa. However, is this assuming too much for NDEs?

[GrandizerII]

However this is kind of a question I also had I would love some opinions on:

Many NDE researchers who believe NDEs are supernatural, claim that in some cases, NDEs differ slightly from person to person, because each person has a unique soul, and each experience makes sense differently to each person. Therefore, a  Hindu person living in India will likely not report seeing Jesus in an NDE, while a Christian person living in USA will. They have noticed that Jesus' appearance in NDEs tends to fluctuate to, sometimes he is said to have dark hair, olive skin, sometimes he looks like traditional paintings, other times not. They say, each person sees him differently, as that is how they imagine him, and they wouldn't be able to recognize him portrayed any other way. My question is: would you say it is more likely that differences in NDEs point to people hallucinating slightly differently, or is it actually some supernatural experience that is customized for each person?

Since you do display great thinking (judging by the paragraph previous to this), what do you think?

By the way, since you are an Orthodox Christian, what does Jesus look like in those icons at the Orthodox churches?

Recently, a study was done on 150 NDEs in Belgium, and found that out of 10 potential common phenomena in NDEs ex: a bright light, meeting deities, life review, seeing a tunnel, out of body experience etc, about 4 were mentioned per average NDE, and the order of them differed. So for example, only around 35% had the order of: OBE, tunnel, bright light, feeling of peace, returning to body, while another percentage had another order etc. Do these inconsistencies make the whole phenomenon seem less reliable? Researchers say no, that again, each person has a unique experience specifically for them the way they understand it, like for example: going to Africa: you could go to North Africa, or South Africa, and see different things, yet both locations are in Africa. However, is this assuming too much for NDEs?

Again, what do you think?

[Brian37]

The concepts of reward/punishment in the afterlife far predate the monotheism motifs of the 3 religions of Abraham. Even Japan's ancient religions depict reward in their version of heaven, and punishment in the underworld. The concepts of good vs evil are universal when it comes to mythology and every point in human history has versions of this with different details. The more earthy religions of Asia are about spirits of ancestors and not gods. But even the Egyptians had their good gods and rival gods and the same with hero vs villain in ancient Rome and Greece.

Even prior to any written religion humans worldwide didn't know any modern scientific reality. The world was far more scary to most back then and they simply projected their own sense of morality into mythology. Anything that benefited the family, clan, they saw as good, and any harm they ran into was viewed as evil. Deities/god/s were their mere projections of human attributes.

The good thing is that there is no hell to burn in. Just like their is no Japanese "underworld" to be punished in. There is simply life now. These mythologies are a really nothing more than the projections of the ignorance of antiquity because our species didn't know any better. Even the idea of Buddhist/Hindu "reincarnation" is also a primitive form of reward/punishment.

Those mythologies worldwide were understandable back then because we were ignorant of reality, but we have grown in knowledge since then. 

Saying there is no heaven or hell DOES NOT mean for us though, that we value lawlessness or cruelty. Far from it. It simply means for us this is it. Not buying any religion or god claim is not fatalistic or advocating crime. It is simply a recognition that neither good or bad are a result of magic, god/s or mythology. Just like a black hole existing doesn't mean you want one affecting you. Saying that hurricanes exist does not make Poseidon real nor does it mean you want one affecting you.

The good thing in life, even with all the bad that happens, is that you CAN still do good and be good. You CAN still enjoy the ride even though it is finite. My late mother printed out a saying years ago, "Don't cry because it is over, smile because it happened." You go to a movie knowing the credits roll, and it ends. You go to a music concert knowing it plays a last song. You go to a sporting event, one team wins, one team loses, but you still go and that too ends. You read a good book knowing it has a last page, but you still read it. 

There is no magic to life. There is lots of beauty, but no magic. Just like there is no Superman vs Lex Luther needed to value the good or look for answers to reduce the bad.