Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[Cod]

Win this debate Huggy, and you can count on my vote come Christmas time. (You've not made the best of starts though.)

[LostLocke]

Therefore it is my position that the Norse god Odin is derived from previously held concepts and can reasonably be dismissed as being real.

If Odin can be dismissed because he holds certain concepts and similarities to other older gods, then Yahweh can also be dismissed for the same reason.

[Minimalist]

No, my argument is that Odin is a myth formed from older myths...

So was fucking jesus.  There is nothing new under the sun HUggy.

[RoadRunner79]

Therefore it is my position that the Norse god Odin is derived from previously held concepts and can reasonably be dismissed as being real.

If Odin can be dismissed because he holds certain concepts and similarities to other older gods, then Yahweh can also be dismissed for the same reason.

In either case, some caution must be used. In observing similar concepts or characteristics; it doesn't follow that there is a connection.  Even if Y looks somewhat like X, you need to show why you think the two are connected, it's not enough to just show that they are similar. 

One might also point out, that you are just pushing the problem back further; and now would be talking about this source which the other was supposedly derived from.  Pointing to something else, certainly is an end of one's argument.

[Cod]

If Odin can be dismissed because he holds certain concepts and similarities to other older gods, then Yahweh can also be dismissed for the same reason.

In either case, some caution must be used. In observing similar concepts or characteristics; it doesn't follow that there is a connection.  Even if Y looks somewhat like X, you need to show why you think the two are connected, it's not enough to just show that they are similar. 

One might also point out, that you are just pushing the problem back further; and now would be talking about this source which the other was supposedly derived from.  Pointing to something else, certainly is an end of one's argument.

The two are connected by neither have ever been proven to exist. It makes no difference how far back you go with this, todays bullshit is the same as yesterdays bullshit.

[Angrboda]

Therefore it is my position that the Norse god Odin is derived from previously held concepts and can reasonably be dismissed as being real.

Those earlier myths were all Loki's doing, in order to create chaos in Midgard. You haven't proved anything but that you're susceptible to Loki's tricks.

[LostLocke]

If Odin can be dismissed because he holds certain concepts and similarities to other older gods, then Yahweh can also be dismissed for the same reason.

In either case, some caution must be used. In observing similar concepts or characteristics; it doesn't follow that there is a connection.  Even if Y looks somewhat like X, you need to show why you think the two are connected, it's not enough to just show that they are similar. 

One might also point out, that you are just pushing the problem back further; and now would be talking about this source which the other was supposedly derived from.  Pointing to something else, certainly is an end of one's argument.

I actually agree with you, but you need to tell Huggy this.
He dismisses Odin out of hand because of those points, but Yahweh also has the same issues. So it comes down to an either/or scenario: You can dismiss ANY god that is similar to older ones, or NO god that is similar to older ones. You can't pick one and not apply the standards to another.

[Neo-Scholastic]

But the point of the thread isn't even metaphysical. It's epistemological. How the hell do you disprove Odin? -- Whether he's necessary or not, you can't do it.

Yes, from a purely episimological perspective someone cannot disprove any of the Norse gods, fantastic beasts, or cosmic teapots. These are just things within a world of things. As for the Christian God, to the extent that He is identical with the God of Classical Philosophy, He falls into a completely category. So I really don't have time for the various straw man arguments that make this dumb-ass category error. And ultimately, I really don't care whether or not any pagan god exists. Maybe they do in some Star Trek "Who Mourns for Adonais" or Q kind of way but since none are the Supreme Being, none would be worthy of worship as God.

(FWIW I didn't "bail". I'm just tapped out from working, my side-hustle, and serving as my cooperative's board secretary. I do not fault anyone for dropping threads that cease to interest them or if they go silent for long periods of time.)

[LadyForCamus]

So..... your "argument", Hugs, is a fairy tale about a stone age skyscraper...from magic book?

No, my argument is that Odin is a myth formed from older myths... The city of Babel existed... Their mythology also existed... That mythology was incorporated into Norse mythology. Therefore since Norse mythology is in no way original, it cannot be the truth, making Odin not real.

Got it?

Did you not say, “I can prove Odin does not exist’?  I’ve forgotten the thread where the original discussion took place.

[polymath257]

But the point of the thread isn't even metaphysical. It's epistemological. How the hell do you disprove Odin? -- Whether he's necessary or not, you can't do it.

Yes, from a purely episimological perspective someone cannot disprove any of the Norse gods, fantastic beasts, or cosmic teapots. These are just things within a world of things. As for the Christian God, to the extent that He is identical with the God of Classical Philosophy, He falls into a completely category. So I really don't have time for the various straw man arguments that make this dumb-ass category error. And ultimately, I really don't care whether or not any pagan god exists. Maybe they do in some Star Trek "Who Mourns for Adonais" or Q kind of way but since none are the Supreme Being, none would be worthy of worship as God.

(FWIW I didn't "bail". I'm just tapped out from working, my side-hustle, and serving as my cooperative's board secretary. I do not fault anyone for dropping threads that cease to interest them or if they go silent for long periods of time.)

So you have *two* things you need to show: 1) that the classical god exists, and 2) that the Christian god is the same as the classical god.