What does one say?

[Lethe]

Yeah, you know, someone who actively proselytizes atheism. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=evangelical+atheist

I love how Conservapedia was in the top results. And in one click: "Immorality is a common trait among Atheists and Homosexuals."

[theVOID]

I doubt it's so much the belief it's self as it is another mechanism causing change that is falsely attributed to that belief, we all know how extremely keen theists are to thank God for stuff, who's to say this isn't the same thing? Belief it's self is rather inert, you're still going through the same process in terms of recovery as someone without belief.

[lrh9]

I don't say anything unless I'm asked a question, then I answer in complete honesty, but directly and concisely. I want to say more. The opinion that I or other atheists shouldn't is just that - an opinion.

[Diamond]

Well, one should avoid saying things like that to people who believe in God unless that person is open to discussion. You should have stopped at this statement, "I'm not gonna make them believe in santa claus because that would be lying." easy peasy and you wouldn't have offended her.

I tried to stop at that statement but that's what made her angry in the first place. From there, we kept going on until I made that "No god, no santa" remark. That did make the debating even worse...

If she is secure in her beliefs and they provide her with a genuine measure of comfort, your lack of belief should not upset her. Attempting to dissuade her of her faith would likely do more harm than good. I'd wager it be best to reason with her through her faith, as it's obviously a delicate issue for her.

My lack of belief didn't upset her before, but she thinks I've gone too far with the whole "no mythical creatures" thing (we weren't just talking about Santa Claus. I just used him as an example). However, she does get upset when she feels like I'm trying to, as you've said, dissuade her. I'm not.

[Ryft]

YOU: "I won't encourage my kids to believe in Santa Claus because, like God, he doesn't exist. Promoting a lie is wrong."

HER: "I hate it when you say that God, the one thing that kept me from killing myself, is a lie."

YOU: "I'm sorry, I didn't realize. I'll be sensitive of that from now on, because I value your feelings and friendship."


First, while I can appreciate that you process things on a more cognitive level, you need to recognize that not everyone does. Women typically process things on an affective level, which (unless you're a completely self-centered prick) you need to respect and not expect everybody to process the way you do. And this is all the more important if she is a cherished friend who you value as a person in her own right. When she tells you that your words hurt her, as a friend you don't compound that hurt further; you apologize and stop. On her view, she has a relationship with God. For her, of what relevance is your view? She is not one of your kids, after all.

Second, you should be relieved that she doesn't process things on a logical level, for she could have buried you over that statement. To say that the proposition "God exists" is false shoulders an enormous burden of proof that, quite frankly, cannot be met—at least, not validly (i.e., it can be met using logical fallacies, such as argumentum ad ignorantiam). You're lucky you got away with it.

[Diamond]

Obviously, you didn't pay much attention.

ME: "When I have kids, I'm not gonna tell them there's a santa claus. It's stupid. That would be lying."
HER: "It's not lying."
Moments later...
ME: "Look, if I'm not gonna get them to believe in a god, so why would I get them to believe in santa claus or the tooth fairy or the easter bunny?"

That's basically when she said, "I hate when you say the one thing that kept me from killing myself is a lie."
I started this thread because I was stunned. Both her and my mom wanted to off themselves once and give credit to their deity for not letting them do it. They both asked me what I have to say about that.
I didn't know what to say.

[Paul the Human]

Just tell them that you are happy for them. If it is belief in their god that gave them reason to live, then let them know you are glad they chose life, even if you do not share their belief in a god. If they can't accept that, they are guilty of closed minded intolerance and should be ashamed of themselves.

[Ryft]

That's basically when she said, "I hate when you say the one thing that kept me from killing myself is a lie."

Either you said something to indicate that the existence of God was a lie or you did not. If you did, my response stands. If you did not, then (if I were you) I would have corrected her, "Wait, I didn't say God is a lie." That probably would have made her feel better.

[Anomalocaris]

. To say that the proposition "God exists" is false shoulders an enormous burden of proof that, quite frankly, cannot be met—at least, not validly (i.e., it can be met using logical fallacies, such as argumentum ad ignorantiam). You're lucky you got away with it.

Wrong and typical of theistic sleight of hand. There is no first burden of proof associated with the position that "god exists" is false just as there is no burden of proof associated with denying the existence of anything that might be dreamt up by all and sundry. Indeed there is no first burden of proof associated with denying the existence of anything. The first burden of proof always rests rather with those who would assert the existence of something.

[fr0d0]

Burden of proof rests with any positive claim. "Gods does not exist" is a positive claim that would make it eligible for a request of proof. If you cannot hope to backup the claim, you shouldn't make it.