Answered Prayers as Proof of God

[Skipper]

Its all about judgment in today's religon. If you anger the god(s) by being immoral, you will rot in the fiery pit of hell forever...The fear of this wrath is what keeps people following the rules... I went to church growing up and it was 3 hour never ending sermons. I am pretty sure they taught that living an unholy life leads to hell. I sure cared about how I acted for fear of going to hell.

Here's another counter to your theory that religion prevents crime out of fear of punishment in the "afterlife". In case you didn't hear when you went to church, the vast majority of religious people believe (at least here in the US, where the majority are Christian) that no matter how many crimes you commit, or how heinous the crimes are, you can still be "forgiven" and enter the heaven. All you have to do is "accept Jesus as your personal savior" and *POOF*, all of your murders, rapes, and other "sins" are erased, and you will live in God's glory for ever and ever.

So I would argue that religion actually encourages crime, because you really can get away with it!

Add to that all the wars and crusades that have been started in the name of religion. Using it's scripture and beliefs as excuses to do what people wanted and the whole theory of religion being a reason why people don't do bad is completely nonsensical.

[Minimalist]

I haven't talked about people killing in gods name because that doesn't matter.

Explain that bullshit to the victims.

[cdog]

I don't kill people and I don't believe in god. Honestly, the law has little to do with why I don't kill. I don't kill because I dont believe in killing.

Sorry, you posted while I was typing, and sometimes I'm a really slow at posting

That's why I mentioned the fact that most (all?) human societies agree that murder, theft etc. are wrong. Most people don't want to murder or steal, maybe it stems from empathy, maybe it's just because we don't to be killed or have things stolen from us, I don't know, but that would be an interesting discussion to have.

So if you and I feel that way, and apparently most of the people on the planet feel that way, what makes you think there's a bunch of people running around who would just love to murder and steal, but damn, they're worried about hell? Somebody with those inclinations probably wouldn't be religious, or if they were would just use the religion to justify their crimes.

I don't know that removing religion would make society 'better', I'd like to think so, but who knows. I suspect we'd find some other reason to kill each other, we're pretty good at that. However you claim that if everyone was an atheist there would be more crime, the basis of your argument that threats of eternal torment keep people in line. I ask again though, (realizing that you've already said you're done with this discussion :p) have such threats lead to any measurable decrease in crime?

[iCStiven]

They're all a big coincidence. Prayers aren't actually answered and do not make the argument over the existence of God more valid.

[Strappado]

It is claimed that answered prayers strengthen the argument for the existence of God.

If that is so, why are unanswered prayers not counted against the existence of God?

Can we really accept as evidence a test where negative results are disregarded?

Well, an actual answer would indeed be something. I'd be convinced personally if God appeared and said: "Right, I'll solve your problems" and then everything was all right. The problem is that many people praise God, when they probably should be praising a doctor who was able to cure them.

[krazedkat]

"Answered" prayers are rather proof of lunacy. Christians and other theists don't get that you can't blame God for everything GOOD and the devil for everything BAD, humans fulfill their own prayers.

[Edwardo Piet]

Well, they evidently can do it.

[Godscreated]

You all see prayer the wrong way and so do a lot of christians. Prayer is not a "spare tire" that you pull out when in trouble; it is a "steering wheel" that directs us in the right path through out life.

[Ashendant]

"Unanswered Prayers as Proof of Atheism"

See how that works out except that the balance of unanswered prayer is ridiculously biased for our side

[Minimalist]

You all see prayer the wrong way and so do a lot of christians. Prayer is not a "spare tire" that you pull out when in trouble; it is a "steering wheel" that directs us in the right path through out life.